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Transcripts may (read: definitely will) contain typos. We use software to transcribe the show and American artificial intelligence is apparently not intelligent enough to understand the Irish accent; go figure!
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[00:00:00] Chris: Hey everyone, Chris here, you're listening to the one DMC podcast, a weekly show where a young guy, his battle with depression is actual and our guests share DB, meaning the conversations about the mind, the body and everything in between. Have you ever met someone whose disposition positive outlook made you feel better about yourself?
[00:00:19] Someone so optimistic, secure in themselves and fun that you just want to give them a call for a laugh and some reassurance when you're a lawyer yourself, Dave, Moore's exactly that kind of guy. Dave believes he's happy. 80% of the time. And in this episode, we spent the larger part of an hour trying to figure out how this is even possible.
[00:00:36] I, for one don't envy, many people, the things you own don't really interest me, which you've made. Don't move me, but the person you are can often inspire me to live my life differently. And this happened to me with Dave. Dave is one after the award winning and hugely popular radio Jew. Dermis and Dave you'll hear every week, the Antony FM having never set foot in a radio shooting before first jobs in the high-profile breakfast show [00:01:00] in 98 FM after 12 years of huge success, the show has since made the big move through national airwaves to launch times until AFM.
[00:01:08] And now sits in the highly coveted 9:00 AM to 12:00 PM slot here to show reaches a huge audience in Earnin every day with every radio award possible double platinum comedy albums, world records, a number one hit for your 2016 and a sold-out comedy tour Dave's radio career. I was going to stutter success.
[00:01:25] David is an accomplished songwriter and music producer, whose list of credits includes Dez Bishop. Paul Jim Raj and many commercials films and TV shows today, we discuss everything from meditation and chiropractics to incent concerts and resilience. Just like the Terman Dave show. We covered a spectrum of mood pretty well.
[00:01:42] We went up down and of course I had to take a sideways a few times something cool about this. You won't notice his listeners is that Dave recorded this from the TFM studios. So for us it felt more like a radio show in recording, which was cool. This one was fun and I'm excited for people to learn from [00:02:00] Dave.
[00:02:00] I don't think anyone else has caught avoid his road to happiness before, um, or that he really enjoyed that process that we went through. But that's exactly what we tried to do for you. You, the listener, if you don't learn at least the last PS, quite a number of you, listen on iPhones, use Spotify. You'll be doing us a huge favor by opening up that Apple podcast app.
[00:02:22] And leaving us a review. Similarly, we're working hard on Instagram content right now to have people engage with us more and to learn why not leave us a comment or DMS. We're working really hard. And we'd love to hear from you. Now, enjoy the episode, jump
[00:02:37] Noel: [00:02:37] out the bed. I got a
[00:02:44] a morning cup of butter. So
[00:02:49] Chris: [00:02:49] come to the one DMC podcast. Uh, thank you very much again for, for giving us your time. I know that you're a busy man and, uh, you do plenty of these. So I'm hoping that we can ask some [00:03:00] questions that maybe you haven't asked before being asked before. And, uh, maybe we can delve deeper into some aspects of your story, because I don't think there are many people, certainly who I come across that I would be jealous of, but I'm jealous of you and not because of what you have.
[00:03:17] Okay. Uh, not because of, you know, The house you live in or where you live or, you know, the family you have, but it's, it's who you are and, uh, how you kind of carry yourself. Um, and you seem to have like this level of contentment that is enviable. So I've never heard anyone say that. Um, they walk around with their baseline contentment at 75 to 80%, uh, happy.
[00:03:43] Uh, I don't know anyone who has that. Okay. So I really want to look at you in the same way. I look at people when I, you know, take their biography and dissect them. I want to understand what about you and what about the way you spend your days? Um, and the way you have lived, your life makes you this [00:04:00] content, human being, you know, uh, people who study monks and all this kind of stuff.
[00:04:03] And your colleague Dermot is into meditation, et cetera. Not saying you're a monk. No, but I think it deserves taking a look at, you know, uh, your story is well told, so we'll try not to tell your story again. Um, it's a lovely narrative, but there are specific aspects of it. I think that I've gone into.
[00:04:18] Making you, the Dave Moore that you are today. Um, and you know, the, the father that you are and the husband that you are and the broadcast that you are. So I'm hoping we can do that. So some justice, so we'd like to kind of start, uh, the shows, uh, with like, uh, a brief, uh, chat generally, where are you right now?
[00:04:37] Like, no starts are our therapy sessions, uh, sorry. I didn't, I didn't preamble that knows my actual therapist and my name is actual client. So we go through this all the time, but people's default to this question is always the same grind, especially in our I'm. Okay, fine. Yeah. So I'm going to ask you, how are you feeling generally?
[00:04:56] You know, everyone's had a difficult year, but
[00:04:58] Dave: [00:04:58] how are you? Yeah, I am [00:05:00] generally pretty. I'm sorry, grant. Um, yeah, cause I am on, uh, the reality of that is, is that as you said, for a lot of people the last year or so, it has been tough, obviously. It's, I'm the same. It's been tough for me too, but I think some of the things that have helped me.
[00:05:17] Uh, genuinely feel the way I feel at the moment is the fact that I've had so much regularity. So I've kept coming into work every day. I've effectively doing the same job. Okay. The, the amount of people that are in this building where I work and do radio is a lot smaller than it was because I'm trying to keep numbers down and particularly during the more stringent lockdowns.
[00:05:38] But I think that that regularity and the sameness of, of what it's been for me has meant that my experience has been a lot less alien than it is for most people. Uh, I'm not doing radio shows from home. Uh, I'm able to come into work every day. I'm able to have my commute, which I know we curse usually. [00:06:00] Uh, but I've also started to realize the value of the commute in, in, in a decompression, in a wind, down in a windup, in a, in a, you know, there's a lot, there's a there's one on the way in is one of the way home.
[00:06:10] And they do different things for you. And I think having that normality has really added to my. Overall sense of, of, of being been pretty good.
[00:06:22] Chris: [00:06:22] Yeah. Most people over the last year, myself included, um, I have friends who would be having perhaps, you know, more wayfarers, et cetera. They would, they would want to travel and they want to get away. And, you know, the first answer to every question is I need to get away. And a lot of them have been talking about the sound of the birds and, you know, getting to go for a walk and the small things within their 5k.
[00:06:44] And if there's any benefit I'm going to come out of this harvest situation, it's that, you know, that they, I read a little bit, a little bit of stoic philosophy. Um, and there's a guy called Seneca and he has these letters to the silliest shoe. I think his, his, um, [00:07:00] uh, nephew, but there's one, one letter in particularly talks about going on vacation.
[00:07:04] And he says the only thing that you can take away from going on vacation is that, are there any bad aspects of it you youth to bring yourself. You know, um, and we have the kind of box of daily existence and in it, um, unless we can learn to be, you know, perhaps grateful for what we have and our daily existence, we can go on holidays and we go on holiday mode and we call this the best place ever.
[00:07:24] Um, and then you go and live there and the places you go that are new and fun, et cetera, become normal, you know? So we all kind of eventually have to come to terms with the fact that, you know, our daily lives are, you know, what's going to happen every single day for, you know, at least a few years. And we, we kind of have to come to, to accept and embrace that.
[00:07:45] No one always talks about accepting the brace.
[00:07:48] Dave: [00:07:48] Yeah, it's not, it's just something about Dave, as I was talking there, the consistency of that, and you touched exactly on us that they're kind of, as you're going in to work the kind of just [00:08:00] get my head ready and the commute to work, and then the commute from work.
[00:08:03] But it's something that I've often talked about. Like if I work with people that would, you know, and even for myself and friends and family. That, especially now that they work from home, a big thing that people are missing and it's, it's great to be able to say, Oh, I work from home. Isn't that great. And it is handy, but what you're missing is that time to, to leave a building and say, right, I'm leaving home, I'm coming into work.
[00:08:24] And I'm the same way. You know, I'm leaving that building that's work and I'm coming home. And it's actually something that I say to people that are now forced to walk home because of COVID is like, try to get into that habit. And the routine of say, if you're starting work at nine o'clock and you're going to start at home, keep try to keep that habit of like, go for a walk to work.
[00:08:44] And it's like, yeah, but not I work from home. I was like, yeah, imagine that you're leaving that building that you're leaving, you're leaving it as home. And it's the same building that you're coming back to after your 10 minute walk or five minute walk around the block, put your Coleman back to work. It's just something that I think it's, yeah, it's really important that it's like, [00:09:00] if you can actually do this and go to work, the building of work, um, that's great.
[00:09:05] But it's something that you can definitely kind of bring in. Yourself as well. A lot of people tend to sit at a desk, as you said, like, get up in the morning, open the computer while they're eating their breakfast, check the news and do whatever bit of social media then. Oh, it's work time now. Same computer, same seat.
[00:09:24] Do the thing. And then, okay, I'm finished working there for the day. I'll just watch something on Netflix or I'll check my Twitter or whatever on the same computer in the same seat. So there's absolutely no sense of separation. And then, you know, time becomes to have even less meaning than it normally does.
[00:09:39] Dan: [00:09:39] I never actually realized something, um, open so recently, like, you know, myself, I'm my partner. We we've both been working from home for, for obviously the last, the last year. And we used to, we only recently moved out of, uh, out of town. We were living right in the heart of Dublin city center and we lived in a small apartment, you know, and she had a little desk set up in her bedroom [00:10:00] or in our bedroom.
[00:10:01] And, uh, like she was saying to me, she's like, I can't do this anymore. I'm waking up. In my bed, I'm working in my bed, I'm done finishing work. We're watching TV in the bedroom sometimes, and then we're going to sleep and better. She's like, I feel like I'm literally never even leaving the place. You know, I'm never leaving this there's one spot.
[00:10:19] So like, you know, even having a separate place, if you can set up at your kitchen table one day or set up on the couch or somewhere, and just give yourself a little bit of variety, because people have gone on about this. I hate saying this word, but new normal, you know, and it's like, it becomes like the new monotony monotony, like it's, it's, it's damaging, you know, just be, feel like you're stuck in the one place all the time.
[00:10:40] Chris: [00:10:40] I think accepting that we're not new sometimes is more powerful than, than wanting a change, you know? But Dave, you have like this enviable sense of contentment and, you know, we didn't think that off a stone. So I want to go back to, um, you growing up. Um, and particularly I want to [00:11:00] understand the people you grew up with, um, you know, there's this kind of.
[00:11:04] A famous expression that you're the sum of the five people that you, you know, spend most time with, maybe true, maybe not, but, um, I want to understand who, who were your influences growing up? And I don't specifically mean, you know, you're, you're into to rock music, et cetera, or metal music specifically, but not even that, but you know, your parents, your friends, you know, who did you spend time with?
[00:11:24] And, um, you know, what kind of dialogues were you having that you, you, you have carried forward into your, your adulthood?
[00:11:30] Dave: [00:11:30] Um, yeah, so, I mean, my family is my parents. I'm the eldest, I'm the boy. And then there's two girls, so I kind of two years and two years. So I spent a lot of time in my family. My family is, uh, is an important part of how I've become who I am and whether there's any kind of explicit, you know, Teachings or interactions that, you know, stick out.
[00:12:00] [00:12:00] I don't think there is that. I mean, I think everyone's family, I suppose, you know, by and large, until a period of reflection everyone's family is just, you know, what you become used to and how you exist or whatever. And certainly that was the case for me. And I think my house was a happy house. Uh, there were struggles throughout my life in, in the home with different things that, that went on.
[00:12:23] But even through those struggles, eh, there was always a, a, an overriding sense of, um, of happiness. And, uh, I remember, uh, far too young to understand, but I remember the stories later in life that, you know, for example, my dad would have been part of a company and would have been a director of a company in the late seventies.
[00:12:46] And it would have meant that he was very successful. And then that company, literally the, they were, it was a stock. So it had hot stock in the warehouse. The warehouse burned down and they were left with nothing. And he [00:13:00] had to go back, you know, with a young family, having just bought as his kind of forever home to like work for himself.
[00:13:07] And he walked around port Marinette where I live and he sold life insurance and he bought a clutch repair machine and put that in the back kitchen and would come home from walking around and trying to sell life insurance, to fix clutches and drop them over to concert in Artane, uh, which is a motor factory in Dublin.
[00:13:26] And then he would do a bit of sales repping on the side. And, and I, as I said, I was, I was five. I don't remember this being a, a big deal, but in later in life, I realized that at no point in that situation was I faced with an upset. Parent or a difficult household or an unhappy place. So even in the face of all of that stuff, the overall mood was, was, was pretty good.
[00:13:55] It was, it was a, it was a lovely, you know, happy place to come home to. It was, my house was [00:14:00] always a popular house among my friends. It was, let's go to Dave's because you know, his mom will make us food and we will kick football against the back wall. And, you know, all this kind of stuff either. There was, there was never a sense of, you know, foreboding or, or, uh, kind of drama around my house.
[00:14:17] It was just always a happy place. So there's, there's no question that the family is a huge part of, of that level of contentment that you mentioned a couple of times, Chris, but I suppose again much like my own experience of that, it's, it's a natural kind of scenario, as opposed to a, you know, some teaching that came down the line, if that makes sense.
[00:14:40] Sure.
[00:14:40] Chris: [00:14:40] Absolutely. So like osmosis, you know, that approach hasn't been biology where it kind of permeates through your diffuses down through the family, like the matriarch and patriarch your family, you could be, grandparents could be your parents, whatever. Um, but there, it's not specifically, uh, teachings. I think it's, um, you know, uh, I don't know, you know, that situation [00:15:00] with your father, that's like a, um, a class in resilience.
[00:15:05] No, and I have this feeling that like depression is kind of, uh, a disease of the mind where you over ruminate and it's kind of a, it's an extended period of low mood that can be calm, you know, sometimes manic, sometimes lead to suicidal ideations, et cetera. Um, but it, it seems to void out all sense of optimism in your life.
[00:15:27] So you have this negativity bias. You seem to look at things, uh, everything, you only see the negative in your life, and there's always this kind of. Dark cloud, or they refer to it as a black dog and different things kind of hanging around with you all the time. So it dampens everything. You can't be optimistic.
[00:15:43] Um, you know, it's very difficult to actually look forward into the future because you're, you're struggling so hard to, um, live in the now and, you know, and I don't think there's always these, these teachings, but you know, that sense of resilience. I feel that, that you were, you grew up [00:16:00] around most have permeated into the way.
[00:16:02] Cause I heard you speak to, I think it was Derek with the news, asking you about, you know, how you feel, et cetera. And you're talking about the current situation and I was struck by how optimistic you were, you know, you were thinking about, um, the deposit and you, you are a person who has kind of access to the nation.
[00:16:20] Um, you know, uh, I don't know the actual facts, but it's either the most listened to, or one of the most listened to shows and on Irish radio, uh, you have a very large platform or on, on social media, et cetera. So you have access to people all the time and you could. If you were prone to pessimism, become pessimistic because you're reading the news and you know, the setting agenda in the media a lot of the time is negative, but you seem to find the positives.
[00:16:43] Do you think you learned that from your family? Did you have friends that were, were perhaps spoke positively? Um, you know, where did you get it?
[00:16:50] Dave: [00:16:50] Um, yeah, so I think family has led to a sizeable percentage of that. And me having that outlook, as you said, I think resilience is actually, it's actually a brilliant way to [00:17:00] describe it then something maybe I haven't given enough thought to that.
[00:17:03] That's probably precisely what, you know, I was, I was demonstrated by my parents. It was that okay, we've taken a hiss, but where is the optimism? Where is the next step? Where is the goodness? Where is the happiness going to come from? Uh, and so that term resilience to me, isn't about, you know, it not affecting your isn't about it.
[00:17:25] Not, you're not going to be hit by something, put that in, in the throws of that. You know, are, are there positives that can be found unrealistic positives as well? They're like, you know, I suppose that's another thing as well, that being positive without anything to back it up is maybe not a very helpful scenario.
[00:17:44] Whereas I think if you can genuinely search out a, uh, a positive outcome from a situate potential positive outcome from a situation, uh, whether or not it achieves that, I suppose, but to have that as your kind of gold and your, your, [00:18:00] your mindset when you're trying to come out of a situation like that. I do think that that helps, uh, friends wise.
[00:18:05] Yeah. I, I was, I was, I'm one of those people where I didn't really have our best friend growing up. I had lots of really good friends and I think that kind of is a pretty good description of me in a lot of different ways in that. Um, I'm a, I'm a Jack of all trades and that applies to friends as well.
[00:18:26] Like a lot of people have their best mates and they just, you know, Whatever happens. There's that one person. And I suppose for me, I'm just don't know what this says about me, but what I've always had as circle of really good friends, as opposed to, Oh, well, Dave's always going to hang out with dealer Dave or Dan, or don't like our work.
[00:18:43] Like I've always had a group of friends, um, whether that was in national school, secondary school, college work, you know, it's always been quite a big number of people and, and also I've always mixed them and I've kind of made an effort to mix them if that [00:19:00] makes sense. So my wife, when she was my girlfriend, he's always freak out when she go who's who's coming over on Sunday.
[00:19:05] I go, well, my soccer mate, Dan was coming over with his misses and then this guy used to know, I lived in Russia with, for a year, from, uh, ganas coming over. And then she'd be like, like, who are these people? Why are you putting these people together? And I was like, I don't know. It just, it just felt like the right thing to do at the time.
[00:19:21] So, uh, I suppose there's that circle thing that kind of, rather than. You know, becoming focused on an individual. Um, I was, I was always in a group and that meant that while there, you know, there there's room in the group for everyone's personality. So there were absolutely some of my friends who were very negative and down and, you know, pessimistic.
[00:19:48] And then there was me at the other end. And then there were probably mostly the regular people in the middle and, and together you kind of, you work out balances and you're in bands together and you just go to the cinema together or you play sport together or whatever it is, but [00:20:00] that run of personalities has always been there.
[00:20:03] So you don't just have one other person who you just kind of connect with. And there's just so there's only two.
[00:20:13] Chris: [00:20:13] Yes, of course. I think that context is very important and, you know, to, for one, to be, um, or to feel happy and have a, uh, you know, a positive disposition, I think one has had to have felt sadness.
[00:20:25] Um, To reference that too, you know, you can't always be happy. You know, that, that 20% at a time you're saying that you're, you don't feel happy is because you've felt some sadness in your life. Of course you have, and I'm glad you referenced, um, you know, realistic positivity. Cause I think sometimes there is this like toxic, I don't wanna use the word toxic, but there's this level of positivity that people have.
[00:20:45] They're like, uh, you know, there's I says, uh, you know, I have depression. They're like, Oh, you know, cheer up. No, don't find that neither cheer up, you know? And like, that's not really the response I want. So it's kind of like this, um, you're being positive about the small, the minutia in your life, about the, you know, [00:21:00] the fact that you're healthy, the fact that you have your family, the fact that you're, I S I see you reference all the time that in your 5k, you have a beach and you have a forest.
[00:21:07] And therefore you're very, very lucky. Lots of people have that in their lives, Dave, but they're not saying that they're saying fucking 5k. I can't go anywhere. Can I go on holidays? I can't do anything. So it's this element of reframing that I think is, uh, it pervades in your, um, Your dialogue and everything you put forward is you seem to reframe everything to the positive, which is something I think you've learned as this idea of learned helplessness and it's kind of common in the media.
[00:21:37] They refer to it a lot, but the opposite out is kind of this learned optimism. And, you know, I am learning from you and, you know, it's kind of weird. I was telling friends that this is the only time in my life, where I spend an inordinate amount of time researching a person before I ever get to meet them.
[00:21:54] So I know kind of a whole about you. And when we meet and it's like this really weird feeling that you know [00:22:00] nothing about me, you didn't even know I existed until probably today or yesterday. Uh, yet I know. Lots of stuff about you, you know, and I feel like the lots of people know you because of the radio and because of your platforms, et cetera.
[00:22:13] Um, but like, let's talk about Belvedere, uh, because you, you mentioned a couple of times that you were prefect. Um, and, uh, I'm trying to picture this kid in my mind that, uh, probably had long hair was into metal music, you know, uh, really into music in general. Yes. You were class prefect. Okay. We had, when we were in a school we're not, uh, metal heads.
[00:22:37] Um, they're very studious. Like let's not, you know, categorize people, but there are some archetypes and there's, you know, the jocks and the geeks and the nerds and the whatever, you know, you can fit people in boxes largely, and it was wrong to do it, but you don't seem to have ever faced in a box. Um, am I right?
[00:22:54] Dave: [00:22:54] Yeah. I think you are a writer and I think. [00:23:00] It's, it's not something, again, it's not something I was aware of at the time. It's not something I grew up, you know, absolutely knowing that, you know, I'll, I'm going to be everyone's friend. I'm going to play rugby very seriously. But at the same time, I'm going to be the rocker guy with the long hair, and I'm going to take part in the school musical, and I'm going to volunteer for this charity thing.
[00:23:23] And I'm going to go on this school trip and that school trip, and I'm going to do whatever, like, you know, none of that was a kind of effort to achieve. It was just, again, it just came naturally to me to have lots of outlets, have lots of different focuses as opposed to a singular thing. Like there were lads, you know, in Bellevue with me who, for whom it was absolutely the jocks stuff.
[00:23:49] It was literally, I need to. Be the best rugby player that this goes over produced. I'm going to do everything in my power to achieve that. There were guys who went, I am going to become the [00:24:00] smartest math sprain that this country has ever produced. And I'm going to focus on that and do whatever it takes to become that I, that never appealed to me.
[00:24:10] And, and even as a teenager, subconsciously, I suppose, because you wouldn't really be too aware of that, but I just, I never wanted to be the best guitar player or the best rugby player or the best singer, because I wanted to be able to play the guitar and play rugby and hang out and do the musical and do hurdles and hang out with my friends about her and hang out with my friends in port moronic.
[00:24:30] And if I focused on one thing, I knew that it would, I just always knew it would narrow my, my, my range, if that makes sense. Um, so, so yeah, when I became, as they call it valedictorian or head boy or a class prefect or whatever of Belvedere, I don't think anybody was too surprised. As you said, you know, the rocker guy doesn't usually tend in archetypal scenario to become this, this person.
[00:24:56] But I suppose everybody knew that, well, if [00:25:00] there's someone in the year who can talk to the jocks and can talk to the rockers and can talk to the geeks, can talk to the teachers, it's probably Dave Moore. So I suppose whether that says something about Belvedere or about me, I'm not a hundred percent sure.
[00:25:15] Maybe it may be a little bit of both, but it, uh, yeah, it, it wasn't, um, I suppose it, wasn't a huge kind of leap for anybody in the, in, in the, like in the movie way where, Oh my God, the girl took her, you know, her hair down and took off her glasses and she's actually been beautiful this whole time. It wasn't like, Whoa, this is comes out of nowhere.
[00:25:38] You know what I mean? It was like a breakfast club. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. No, because the thing I find interesting like to get to that stage, I suppose, the way I'm looking at it is if you come, if you come right back of the, as you're talking there about the different friendship groups, and it's just that acceptance of yourself, and again, this is something that I think is really [00:26:00] important.
[00:26:00] There's always an emphasis on except yourself for who you are, but it's also to accept yourself for who you're not. And you know, you're looking at your friend group, but there was no, there doesn't seem to be any kind of necessarily judgment there. And there's just an openness to you. And like, even now, and that's one of the reasons why I was really looking forward to, to, to try to get you onto the show was because there is, there's just, there's an openness there to whoever it is, but you can really see it in you in the things that you do that is going to love.
[00:26:30] Sneakers loves math, loves money United, but also loves a good cheesy pop song, all of these kinds of things. And it's just going to go on. Yeah, this is me. And I think that spills out for people to live a life that way that it, it not only goes out, but it also goes in as well, you know, and then you're accepting of people out there and then clearly accepting of yourself and just wanting to have that, that kind of form as well.
[00:26:55] Was that a big thing? Like the fall and to [00:27:00] have fun as well as that consciously in your mind at the time? Or was it just kind of like, was it a family trait kind of thing almost? Um, yeah, I th I don't know about a family trait maybe now that you say it and thinking back. Yeah. Like I said before, like my house was when we were growing up, it was always, you know, we would gather in the, when, on the days when you could play out on the road, because there weren't that many cars, it would always be my Gates that were the goals.
[00:27:25] If that makes sense, you know, and they could have been anyone's Gates, but I suppose it just it's that thing. And then my sisters were probably the same in that, you know, their friends would be coming into the house and they'd be in the backyard and then. We'd be at the front and then we'd be in the background and they'd be at the front or whatever it was.
[00:27:39] So, yeah, I think probably that word fullness is quite important to me all the way through when I was certainly in my professional career, because like there's comedy straight up comedy elements to our radio show, like, you know, where are we go? We are now going to do a comedy piece and that's fine. And I've [00:28:00] always enjoyed that.
[00:28:01] I had no experience in it until they started doing radio. But the phone element of our radio show is an absolute cornerstone and phone rather than funny. If that makes sense in the, like the phony will happen because you're open to film and because you are not taking yourself or your job too seriously, even though it is a massively high pressured situation, as you referenced before it's it's, it's, it's, it's an absolutely.
[00:28:29] Behemoth of a show in terms of numbers and that kind of stuff. You know, so particularly, you know, this to bring fun to this time slot, this nine to 12 radio in, in, in Ireland tends to be leaning really, really hard towards the serious or the controversial or the outrageous. And I think when we were given the opportunity to take this show on one of the key [00:29:00] conversations that we needed to have with the powers that be was, well, look, you know what we do if you want, what's been there before, you don't hire us to do that.
[00:29:09] But if you were willing to come with us and allow us to bring fun to this time slot, while still covering, you know, really important topics. And, and I mean, even today, whenever people listen to the podcast, doesn't really matter, but it literally on today's show, we had a silly chat about. Patty's day followed by a 12 minute interview with a doctor who just spent a year in the refugee camps in Greece for medicine and on frontier.
[00:29:39] Now I'm not saying there aren't all the radio shows that can do that, but traditionally the nine to 12 slot on radio, or anytime in and around that is going to be medicine that's on frontier followed by, you know, the potential Paddy's day. Um, you know, protests followed by what's going to come with the weekend followed by the, this job losses [00:30:00] here.
[00:30:00] So I suppose our show is like, look, we absolutely pick the most important part of the current affairs news cycle and cover it. But also we're just going to have fun and we're going to have texts in with the listeners and they know that this is the place where they can send a serious texts and five minutes later can send a phone text.
[00:30:18] And so that, that word is, is hugely important to me, both professionally and also personally, like I absolutely love to have fun and. You know, be that with my family or my friends or work. It's, it's, it's a key element.
[00:30:36] Yeah. It's a friend of mine actually did the, I know today fam do, um, courses and studio courses and different stuff like that. And she was in the course, I'm not sure if it was yourself or our dermis that was teaching the course or something. Some line came up and it was exactly that it was the look, there is absolutely serious stuff going on, but what we try to do is just for those hours, [00:31:00] give people a break.
[00:31:01] And I think that's representative of the, like, if you, if you, again, just bring it up back to your, to the person, that approach, it's a great approach to have of, you know, and we're touching on the real, the real kind of, um, positivity, that real realistic balance positivity of, um, like, say for, say for yourself, it's like, look, I'm having a really crap day.
[00:31:22] But you know what I'm going to get out for that walk. I'm going to listen to it. And that's what I preach. I literally prescribed to people, listen, to shows like that because it's to give you the, give you the break, as opposed to, you know, what will lots of us will often do is I'll just suppress our shove, all the feelings under the carpets.
[00:31:37] Totally block it out. So I don't want that. And then there's also like don't constantly look into the really heavy crap, dark stuff, because if you're not already depressed, that will make you depressed. We're not, we're, we're trying to get that middle ground where I say, look, I feel crap, but you know, for the moment I'm going to give myself that break.
[00:31:55] Um, and I think that's, it's a great representation of what you guys do, [00:32:00] the, but then you do it on the bigger scale for the national kind of thing. But it's great for people to do it, to do that then themselves, it's just practice and come back to it at a, at a good time to have the phone though, as well.
[00:32:11] Yeah. And I hope that people don't feel like if they come into us, it's purely a distraction and it's, you're going to miss out on something. I think. We have a news team who do the, you know, the, the, the absolute, whatever the news is of the day. You're going to hear that we're going to cover the biggest stories of the day.
[00:32:26] I mean, today, there's lots of things we could have done, but that shot between myself and dermis about our Patty's day and the different stuff we did. And, uh, you know, me taking the kids to McDonald's to get a Shamrock shake like that. That's far more helpful to the nation to hear that they're the two people that they enjoy listening to having this real conversation.
[00:32:47] Yeah. It was a bit of fun. It has a bit of a laugh here or there, whatever a little clip of audio here helps them, whatever it is. But ultimately it's not that we're blindly going. Yeah. Nala, everything's happy over here. Come on [00:33:00] the lockdown, like that's, that's unhelpful. I think because yeah, what I agree Mo you know, there's a majority of the media that is, has a negative, a negative bias, maybe a bit of that would help.
[00:33:12] But I suppose what our show in that particular time slot needs to do is to. You know, navigate both parts and yeah, I suppose again, if you, I don't know if you want to put percentages on it, but it was probably 60, 40, 70, 30 in terms of the phone on the positive and the, uh, the crack and then the older stuff is there to be talked about.
[00:33:31] But I suppose it's, it's just that balance is what you probably need in your life, you know, as opposed to one or the other, I
[00:33:38] Chris: [00:33:38] think. Yeah, absolutely. And I think it's, sometimes there's like lots of things. Um, I'm not a media basher, but you have to look at these things critically. Okay. But lots of times in the media or in film or on radio or anywhere they seem to, um, play on a particular, um, mood or disposition, you know, sometimes it's [00:34:00] negativity, sometimes it's positivity, but mood is a spectrum, right?
[00:34:03] So throughout your day, you're going to feel up. You're going to feel down, you know, Someone's going to tell you something that's going to make you feel, you know, a little bit irked. Um, there are, you know, you're going to go through the spectrum of emotions all the way throughout your day. You know, that's what kind of, um, you know, Buddhist principles and mindfulness, all these things are trying to teach you is to find equilibrium in, in, in your, so it's very important to reflect that for the people.
[00:34:29] I think the response to your show has been because, you know, perhaps, um, people feel like you guys are reflecting how they actually feel. You know, there's this thing like gallows humor, um, where like people who will be at funerals and it's happened to me, those are the times where I always remember my, my auntie's funeral.
[00:34:46] And my cousin turned around to me in the middle of the funeral and said something and maybe laughing, I couldn't stop laughing. And I felt like, you know, ashamed that I couldn't stop laughing in the funeral. But as I grew up, I realized. The fuck that's normal, you [00:35:00] know, like you're not supposed to feel ashamed by that.
[00:35:03] You know, she was there. She would have been laughing with me next to me, you know, giggling. Um, but we feel like, no, you have to maintain this veneer of perfection, you know? And it's not really fair, but I don't feel like I don't want you to think that I'm up on your life or anything. We're trying to break down every little aspect of you.
[00:35:17] But I think laughter is a very important thing is hugely important. And I, myself feel like perhaps I don't laugh enough. Um, and you know, you have said, um, and saw the Dermot as a positive factor in your life and you met dermis, you know, I think it's going on 17 or 18 years ago now. Um, yeah. Do you think like laughing every day, you know, it's almost a guarantee factor in your life that you're going to have lots of laughs um, yourself and Derma on the show is like a factor for your enthusiasm and your, your house
[00:35:50] Noel: [00:35:50] 100%.
[00:35:52] Absolutely. And. Uh, uh, we, we often we often talk about this actually. Um, well maybe not often, but [00:36:00] more, I suppose, than than most people who work together, we'll talk about it. But we know deep down that no matter what kind of situation we're in, no matter what mood ran or no matter what difficult or happy situation we're in that coming into this radio show from, I'm not just the three hours on air, but from the moment you walk in in the morning until you're finished in the afternoon with the team that we have, that everyone is, is on a page on that page is ultimate professionalism, attention to detail working our asses off, but almost number one of all of them is having fun.
[00:36:39] And we're so lucky that first of all, he and I, as you said, have been together since 2002. So it's, it'll be 20 years next year. And to find somebody like that, And be able to work in a phone and pressured and difficult, but a [00:37:00] fun environment for 20 years as your job is ludicrous and rare. And we don't take that for granted.
[00:37:08] And we absolutely say it to each other regularly that like, you know, man coming in here, I just, you know, I just wake up in the morning and go, I'm just going to go in there. And for five hours, I'm going to have a laugh. I'm going to have fun now, do I do things? So I get something wrong and it freaks my producer out or freak terminate, or does he say something?
[00:37:28] Then we go, Oh Jesus, of course, like, that's the pressure, that's the professionalism. And that's the, what you have to do to make the show be the best show it can be. But ultimately it's two best mates who are just having a chat and playing some tunes and having fun and genuinely. That is what the show is.
[00:37:50] Yeah. When we tackle. Not even when we talk about difficulty, when we talk with anything, we have a color on for a moment petition, we deal with them in a way that I don't think other shows deal with them. We [00:38:00] relate to them in a way that I think you mentioned that like people relate to us because we are ultimately just too loud.
[00:38:06] There, there, there, there was a time certainly in art and in the UK, and maybe it's still the case in different parts of the world where radio personalities were elevated and they were kind of, Oh my God, did you hear that this person's going to come to our local supermarket and give out a CD single or whatever?
[00:38:22] You know, that was a thing. I certainly think that's from when I joined radio in the mid two thousands, there was a hunger for the opposite. There was a hunger for forget the big personalities, the big name and the massive wages that are quoted and RTE and all that kind of stuff. It's like the only, not the only, but the best way to connect with your audiences to go.
[00:38:43] Like, I'm just a guy from down the road. I come in here and this is my job. Your job is to deliver milk and your job is to do counts and your job. We all have the same thing. You're just listening to me. I'm the other guy I work with effectively just chatting over the desk like you're doing with your mate, but just [00:39:00] ours is being broadcast day two in this case, the nation, you know, so, so the element of Dermot and myself finding each other, that needle in a haystack thing, that's serendipity of us coming together, who we didn't know each other from Adam or from different counties were different ages.
[00:39:18] Like everything about it was completely different, but yet here is a relationship that has formed those last 20 years that I spend more time with him than I do with my wife. I spend more time with him than anybody else on earth. The potential for us to tear each other's heads off is absolutely enormous.
[00:39:39] But we haven't, I literally cannot think of a time we've had even a single argument and that isn't true of me and my, my inverted commas, best friends. Like you always have an argument with your mates and it's you smooth it over and you get on whoever. Well, we literally have had to work and put that Mike up every single day for hours a day.
[00:40:00] [00:39:59] And if we're, we can't afford to, to have bad blood or only if you do. And, and look, it happens all the time. The is don't last. I mean, I think the average lifespan of a radio show is three years. Like here we are, as I said, approaching, approaching 19 this August. Like, so yeah, it's, it's something that has been a huge, huge effect on me professionally.
[00:40:25] And therefore that's what creeps into your life. But people sometimes say like, Oh, I can't believe you're the same off-air as you are on air, but that's because I'm allowed to be the same on there. Yeah. By my cohost. By my producer by my radio station in an environment where they, this has been fostered, as opposed to, as I said, maybe if I came into radio 10 years earlier, it would, it would have been make sure now you're turning into the guy.
[00:40:48] He says, Oh, here come to the June's house. And then, you know, that's fine. That was a style of radio, but that person didn't give any of their personality to their listeners. They didn't know about their family or about their house or [00:41:00] about their interests and whether they liked Backstreet boys and Slipknot, or whether they collected runners and guitar.
[00:41:05] Like it wasn't important. What was important was, and you get the top 40 hits out in one hour, less than the other guy, like, you know, and that's fine. That was the style of radio and a style of presenting that existed. But I think being allowed to be yourself and obviously you're an elevated to heightened version of yourself as opposed to by and large, it is me on the radio.
[00:41:27] Chris: [00:41:27] Yeah. And look, I'm not asking you to speak or preach the word of day from the pulpit here, but let's just say there's an element, um, in everyone's life of randomness and luck and serendipity is the right word. You, you did meet Dave and I've heard the story of you taking a six month contract and you're still here 20 years later, I'm in radio, you know, you wanted to get the music and, and you, you took the divergent road in the woods.
[00:41:51] Um, let's say, uh, but as you know, I'm, I'm listening to you right now and I'm, I'm sitting at home and I'm in, um, you know, I'm probably not off [00:42:00] as I'm working from home, but I am, I am in an office job. Let's say are I'm in a job that I don't like, okay. And it doesn't matter what job you have, if you, if you have the perspective that you like, your job, doesn't matter what job you have.
[00:42:12] Okay. But I'm in a job that I don't like. Um, What can I take away for me, Dave? What can I kind of, how can I maybe infuse some of that reasoning into my life? Should I change my job? Should I try and look for a job like Dave Moore has? Or can I take my job and, you know, perhaps change my perspective?
[00:42:32] Noel: [00:42:32] Yeah. I, I think, I think serendipity, is there a, I don't know if there's a word for serendipity because you worked hard or worked at something.
[00:42:45] If that,
[00:42:45] Chris: [00:42:45] like, you have to prepare for luck. Yeah.
[00:42:48] Noel: [00:42:48] Tells me this. Yeah. So I remember I, when I was involved in music before it was before radio was everything and my wife was an actress and she wanted to give acting one more shot and she was like, look, I'm going to [00:43:00] go to LA, I'm going to have an agent or have a manager.
[00:43:03] I'm going to go over. See if I can get an agent, I'm going to give it up. She was kind of falling out a little bit, as you done referred to go to 10 years and was like, look, I either want to do this or I don't, but I'm not going to. Sit here and Dublin and hope for a small part in a big thing. And maybe I'm going to go first.
[00:43:18] What do you want to do? Cause we were going out at the time and I was like, well, I'm lucky. Again. I work from home as I did at the time in the studio, in my parents' house. And I said, well, I'll just, you know, bring what I need to bring with me and I'll go. And while you're out, you know, at meetings and jobs and castings, whatever, I'll just work on my music.
[00:43:33] So from LA it makes no difference whether I'm in LA or whether I'm in it, because at that time, email had become a thing and you could just email stuff and whatever. So we went and we had a ball or whatever. Anyway, it turns out she didn't love it and didn't want to do it. So we came home and I remember coming home on the plane and a thought just hit me.
[00:43:51] And it was like, it should have probably hit me before it was on the plane, but it was like, Oh, I've just lived with this woman for the last three months for the first time, [00:44:00] because we didn't live together before that because she lives in her parents' house. And if my parents house and I was like, Oh, no, like I've got to go back to my parents' house.
[00:44:07] No, not at all. No, I like, I love my parents. It was great. But I was like, okay, I don't live with this woman anymore. So I was faced with a situation where I hadn't, I made a decision coming home on that plane that I need to get a job. Now, what I mean by that? Isn't I need to Jack in music and I need to, but I need to formalize my music career so that I have regular income.
[00:44:28] Cause the one thing about working for yourself, no matter what industry it is, is your job to job. And you just hope, and I, I could get a job in February of any given year that could give me 20,000 Euro revenue. I'm like, woo, this is amazing. What a great job. And then I could have nothing for four months.
[00:44:44] And if I, you know, go out and decide to buy a car and you know, all of a sudden my 20 grand has gone and where am I, if I need to live with this woman and pay rent, how am I going to do that? If I've, if I don't have a regular income. So I came back with that idea, did not know what the solution to that [00:45:00] was, but I knew the mindset I was getting into was you need to formalize this in some way.
[00:45:07] And so I met with a multimedia company and they had offices in the template bar and they were like, look, we'd love you to come in and be our musical and our multimedia empire type thing. Uh, and sure you can still use your, you can use the studio setup we make for you. You can use us to do your own stuff on the side.
[00:45:26] And that was a big flip for me because I was con I really wanted, I had may spent five or six years building my own name, my own career. And it was like, I was diluting that by moving in with these guys, because I would specifically work for them. And then maybe I could have a chance to do my other stuff, but, but the mindset, there was no, I need to do this because all the cars they're going to pay me a monthly salary and I'll just do whatever they need to do.
[00:45:52] And then I will make the rest of it work. And out of nowhere, the radio thing came along. And so I [00:46:00] suppose what I was, what I was, I was, I was attuned to. Changing my S my existence at that point, I was ready to make a change. And if you're talking about somebody who hates their job or, or just has a job, they don't like for whatever reason, it's not as drastic as you absolutely need to change your job.
[00:46:19] Go hand in your notice. Now I've never prescribed that level of detail to someone. But what I would say is there'll come a point where you break, cause you'll just go. I literally can't do this anymore. And you will just walk away and maybe you won't have anything in the background. Whereas maybe what you need to do is prepare yourself for the serendipity is like, you know, start saying to yourself, okay, what do I actually want to achieve?
[00:46:44] You know, it is, and these you, I don't mean like I want to, you know, become an entrepreneur and set up a company and as well maybe is I want to be happy going to work. Maybe that's that's as vague as it needs to be, but if you start kind of thinking in your head going, okay, well then what are the ways that I could do that?
[00:47:00] [00:46:59] Could I interact less with the guy over there, that's an absolute idiot. And could I, you know, meditate on the way to work or do you know, there are small things you can do, but ultimately if it comes to needing to change your job, then if you're, if you're getting yourself into that mindset on the run-up to what could be that decision, I think you'll be better prepared for whatever comes down the road.
[00:47:24] Um, and that, that level of making your own look as a bit of a hackneyed phrase, but you know what I mean, that you just kind of start putting foundations down for you to make changes if that's what's required.
[00:47:39] Chris: [00:47:39] I know exactly what you mean. And I would, um, categorize this as like maximizing the surface area of luck.
[00:47:46] Right. So, um, you know, In my own life. Uh, you said earlier that you have taken the decision to say yes to a lot of things. So I read a book years ago. Can't remember who wrote it? No, I think he was [00:48:00] Hilton hotel or whatever. I mean the business and, um, the book was called a yes, as the question wants the answer.
[00:48:08] Okay. And that's it. I kind of started to instill that in my life because I felt like, okay, I want to maximize the surface area for serendipity or luck. What do I need to do? So there were certain things that I wanted to do in my life and certain avenues I wanted to take and people I wanted to meet. So I would prepare, you know, reading to me is, is preparation for life.
[00:48:31] Meditation is preparation for a time when you need to be resilient, you know, you go to the gym, you know, my mentality always with going to the gym was always for, I want to be a better athlete. Um, now it's, I want to look better. You know, there's nothing wrong with that, but it's it you're preparing for something.
[00:48:46] No, you do what you do with your, I call it pro cavitary, which is like. Positive vocabulary is you're preparing yourself. I guarantee you, this is happening in your own family with your kids. Is you, the way you speak [00:49:00] is being infused through how they speak together and how you speak to your wife would be how, um, you know, uh, uh, perhaps your son may speak to his wife or his husband.
[00:49:12] Okay. And all of these things like trickle down from you. You know, you've got access to the nation. So people respond to you because it's trickling down to them the way you speak and you know, the way you, you, you chat about everything. But I think that's a, it's a brilliant piece of advice to give to any young person is prepare yourself for luck.
[00:49:31] You know, life is random. The world is complex and adoptive a lot of the time. Um, you know, things won't go your way. So no one only always talk about accepting and embracing as a, as a default mode. So if, if you can accept. Um, and change your perception and your perspective on life then, uh, you know, no matter what really comes at you, it doesn't matter.
[00:49:55] You're kind of capping the downside. Okay. You're saying, all right, I'm not going to let it slip. [00:50:00] Okay. It's bad, but it's, I'm reframing it. It's not that bad. And your upside is exponential. You can do, you know, you can be as happy as you can possibly imagine. You can be euphoric because you're allowing yourself to say, okay, I've prepared now, when the good thing comes along, I'm going to grab it.
[00:50:15] I'm going to kick down the door and I'm going to take the opportunity because I have read all the books where I've done the courses in my own time, or I have, you know, I hate this idea of networking, but I have built my network and I know the right people are in a very small place. You know, if you know the right people that gets you a, a long, long way.
[00:50:32] Yeah. So I think it's a brilliant, brilliant, brilliant thing to say. And there was, there was something else I really wanted to talk to you about, and it's this idea you you've built up this kind of, um, I want to use the word heterogeneity, but you, you know, this is kind of you, you like sneakers, okay. You like metal, uh, you like sport, you're in, you're in demand United.
[00:50:52] Uh, you have these DIY projects you're into to the radio. You have all of this kind of, let's say, [00:51:00] you know what? I would say, random selection of things you like, it's never like, no one's ever seemed to told you, like, Dave, you need to fit in this box. You know, you need to be, we have this fundamental bias, cognitive bias, uh, about consistency, commitment, and consistency.
[00:51:14] And it's, if I tell you that I am committed to being a metal head. Okay. Like I can picture in my head what a metal hat looks like. You don't look like a MATLAB to me. Okay. So I want to understand, like how have you fostered that in your life? Um, and more importantly, you know, when your kids are growing up, because they're in that developmental stage, I think your eldest is 11, correct me if I'm wrong.
[00:51:37] Yep. Yeah. What are you saying to them about, you know, people are coming along to them saying like, you know, you like soccer while you're, are you wearing a rugby Jersey or you're um, a boy, why do you listen to, um, Taylor Swift? You know, all of this stuff is happening to you as you're growing up, it must have happened to you as well, but you seem to be like, you know, I am who I am.
[00:51:59] I wear [00:52:00] sneakers, I love sneakers. You know, I wear her man United church to, to, to my job. Um, you know, you've kind of taken that and gone, you know, I am who I am. So is that something you've fostered in your life? Um, or is it something that, you know, just came by chance?
[00:52:17] Dan: [00:52:17] I
[00:52:18] Noel: [00:52:18] remember being six and collecting fancy paper in school. And the girls all collected fancy paper in school. And what it was, if anyone doesn't know is literally fancy paper. So stationery sets with, you know, Daisy doc or Minnie mouse and flowers and unicorns and all those things. And I don't know why I genuinely don't know why.
[00:52:43] I don't remember the day, but I just, at some point I had a collection of yeah, the paper and the yard time, a couple of days a week, I would sit down in a circle with the girls and we would swap fancy paper. And I remember being slagged about this by the lads for him, the other three days I [00:53:00] would play bulldog and chasing and football or whatever.
[00:53:04] Um, and I couldn't understand it. I literally just was like, Whoa, like, why can I know both kick the head off and bulldog? And then the next day, you know, swap, uh, Strawberry shortcake, fancy paper for, uh, for whatever other one was available. Um, and I suppose that has been me for as like I was sick, so I don't remember being told it was okay to like, whatever you liked or do whatever you want them to do.
[00:53:36] I don't remember that specifically, but I do remember just feeling it, feeling that it was alien to me that I couldn't, or they shouldn't do that. And I suppose as I got older, that just became more of a, um, like, like I never did it for the sake of it, but I suppose I was happy to puff my chest out and go.
[00:54:00] [00:54:00] Yeah. Like from my 27th birthday, when I was living in LA and I could've gone to the Troubadour to see, you know, stone, temple pilots, my wife got me tickets to go see and sink in Anaheim. And it was literally the best day of my life that I went to see them. Like last year I went to see Metallica in Barcelona one week and then on a, I think it was a Saturday.
[00:54:21] And on the Monday I saw Backstreet boys in the three arena. And I swear to God, I enjoyed the Backstreet boys more and I'm sorry to all my metal heads, but it's the truth and it's not contrived and it's not, I don't know how to feel about what you've just said. It's not like, I'm not saying it to try and get people to go, Oh, you're so quirky or whatever.
[00:54:41] Like that's genuinely how I am about things. And I just never felt like there was any reason for me not to be like a record holder in 110 meter hurdles in my school. [00:55:00] And at the same time, seeing in the, in the annual musical, you know, and try and get a lead part in that, like, it never occurred to me that this you shouldn't Darlene, I shouldn't put that.
[00:55:11] It's not typical to do. It was like, it just made sense. It was like, well, I love singing and I love running really fast. So I'm just going to do both of those things and whatever that was. I just kept pushing that agenda, I guess. Not again, not, not for the sake of it, not to prove a point or not to, but just because that's what I enjoy.
[00:55:31] So when you listed off those things on them, laugh in there and go through and go on the, I am, I'm kind of weird, but like I do love cooking and I love DIY and I love guitar and I love collecting things and I love, you know, but not, not where it like stops me doing something else, if that makes sense and not where I go.
[00:55:54] Yeah, well,
[00:55:54] Chris: [00:55:54] not doing what you're supposed to do,
[00:55:56] Noel: [00:55:56] right? Yeah. Maybe that's the word or maybe, yeah. That if you're a, [00:56:00] you know, like one of the reasons why I fell in love with genuinely cheesy boy band music, apologies to Dan, uh, is because when I was working as a musician, when I was working as a musician, I had to be adoptable.
[00:56:14] I had to be able to do, you know, a classical version of something, or I need this. It has to be a dance tune or a quickly, I need a, I need a pop song tomorrow. Like that's always how these jobs came to me. And even like, literally last week I got asked to do, um, a kind of Hollywood Lala land style version of a really popular rock song for a Netflix show.
[00:56:40] I'm not that excited about, but whatever, but, but like, it still happens to me now that someone goes to me, I need you to do this. I need you to do it tomorrow. But if I turn around and go, I just, I just do death metal. I'm sorry, like they go, Oh, right. Well, we'll just go over to John and he'll do it. Or if they go, I go, I've never really, Troy's big, you know, piano, [00:57:00] ballsy, Hollywood, lalala fifties.
[00:57:02] I dunno. Like of course I just went immediately went. Yeah. I'd love to do it. No idea. I've no idea what the crock is. Have to listen to the Lala land soundtrack about a million times to try and get a feel of what that sounded like, and then try and replicate that. But that it's that thing of being adaptable to a situation and, and trying to, trying to be at least good enough at a thing that it will work, if that makes sense.
[00:57:31] So absolutely makes sense.
[00:57:35] Chris: [00:57:35] Like, yeah, but this contrarianism is, is like, I don't want to say it's a lesson. I don't want people to listen to go. Like, here are the lessons of life, but, um, I am very much of the same Eric, as you Dave, I. Um, like lots of different things that are seemingly opposing. Okay. Um, like I'm a hip hop head, but my favorite concert I've ever been to was a Sam Smith concert in, [00:58:00] um, in the three arena.
[00:58:01] Okay. So that doesn't really make sense, but I like what I like, because I like it I've been allowed to do that. The people have, let me do that. You know, there's this idea. I think he's a sociologist, Charles Hart and Cudi. Um, and he has this idea of the looking glass surf that I'm really into. And it's essentially, we are who we are in reflection of who we're around and the feedback loops that are constantly going on.
[00:58:25] And, you know, I feel like people sometimes get put into a box because the people that they grew up with or the people that influenced them, which is why I asked you earlier about your influences. If, if you were, uh, I met Ladd and your dad was a matte ladder, your mom was a metal head and you came home and you were like, I'm going to dancing concert.
[00:58:43] And you're like, no way. That is not what metal heads do. That lads like metal music, unless you're listened to Metallica, you're not accepted in this family. I've always been allowed to do what ever the hell I wanted. And I think that from a parenting [00:59:00] perspective is the thing I'm most thankful, um, to, um, uh, to my parents, because they gave me this sense of kind of foreboding confidence.
[00:59:09] That if I, if I try something, then they let me try it. If I liked it, then they let me pursue it. If I didn't like it, then they let me give up. And they never said to me, Chris, you like hip hop music. So why are you listening to Sam Smith? You know, that's not what people who like hip hop music do. And as a consequence of that, both you and I think have these like.
[00:59:35] You know, opposing interests, all these things that don't really make sense. You can't put your finger on why are you into that? Um, like I, I do these newsletters and one of the recent ones, I told people that my favorite show I've ever watched on TV was love Island. No, if you know me that doesn't make any sense at all, because all I do with my time at our primarily is read and I read really esoteric, weird books, usually really old, [01:00:00] you know, philosophy or are mostly non-fiction.
[01:00:03] It doesn't make sense that I'm watching love Island, but I love it. And I don't care what people say, but I've been allowed to do that. And I think from a parenting perspective, um, if there are parents listening or if there are teenagers listening or are people in, in 400 years of their life at 19, you know, going to college or 18 going to college, it's important that you just say, if you feel like doing something, just because your friends don't do it, or just because they say like, what are you doing that for?
[01:00:28] Like, you're a rugby player while you, um, you know, listening to Taylor Swift, don't listen. No, there's no prescription for life. There's no, there's no formal thing you're supposed to do. You're not supposed to be consistent with your two year degree. I would imagine over 80% of people who do that agreed to a different job.
[01:00:45] Anyway, eventually they figure out, Oh, this is for me. You know, the fact that we have to tell the people that are 18 to figure out what you want to do for the rest of your life. It makes no sense. I love that about your story. I hate using the word that it's your story, but you know, sometimes this [01:01:00] narrative, we have to put you in a narrative, but your story is wonderful because you have done all of these different things.
[01:01:07] You have this range in your life that you have been allowed to do things and you have taken the risks. And, um, you know, one of the things I wanted to ask you about was this conversation you had when you left, um, college. Okay. You were offered a job in Russia. Okay. And the line that got me was I was offered a job that paid better than my father's job, which to any parent I would say is like a moment where you're like, Oh my God, Super proud of my son.
[01:01:35] And you had the courage at that age, you know, perhaps I don't know what age you were specifically to say. No. Um, remember that time I talked to you about music. I want to do that. Okay. I want to give this up. Um, and I don't want to take the form of track. I'm getting off this train now I'm hopping onto this airplane and I hope you're okay with that.
[01:01:55] Can you maybe tell me what that conversation was like? You know, [01:02:00] how did you feel?
[01:02:00] Noel: [01:02:00] How did they feel? Um, yeah, so you, you you've encapsulated it pretty well. I mean, it was definitely that thing of having lived in Russia for a year in my third year in Trinity. So for anyone who hasn't researched me, like you have Chris, I did business studies in Russia and insurance.
[01:02:16] Uh, again, business was because I didn't know what I wanted to do Russia, cause I already spoke a couple of languages and wanted to add a different one to my, uh, my repertoire. And also because I wanted to go to Trinity because a lot of my mates were gone there. So it meant I could live at home and my mommy could make my lunch and.
[01:02:32] You know, fold my bedclothes and stuff. So there's a lot of reasons I wanted to do it. Um, so anyway, yeah, so I came to my, finished my finals and was totally focused on, you know, the milk round is the college. I don't know if they still do or all the consultancy companies come in and present themselves and go, come work for us.
[01:02:47] We're at Grey's and you go off to London and do whatever. So yeah. Long story short is there was a job offer on the table from a company in Moscow, you know, apartment, car driver, all these things that were just insane to be [01:03:00] thinking of at 22. But yeah, but I had broke into my parents cause I wanted to be a rock star when I was late in my late teens.
[01:03:08] And they said, look, you can do all the stuff you want while you're in college. Just, you know, you might have to put stuff on hold for a while. It would go and yeah, do your degree, get your degree. And then once you have that, sure, let's have a look and see what happens. So it was literally that conversation.
[01:03:23] It was, I came back and I said, guys, look up an offer this job. And I showed them that letter because it was. 1997 and people sent letters, um, and they were delighted and they were excited, like you said, and I'm sure my parents, there was an element of pride that I had, you know, achieved enough within the four years of my degree, that somebody was prepared to offer me a job like this.
[01:03:46] And then I said, well, do you remember the conversation we had? And it wasn't out of the blue. Like, I mean, I had always been a musician, you know, even in, in fourth year when I was concentrating solely on my finals and my [01:04:00] dissertation and Russian and making sure I had everything, I was still playing guitar.
[01:04:04] I was still meeting up with my friends and going to gigs and playing gigs. And it just wasn't the only thing I was doing. But so it wasn't like the, it kinda kind of came completely out of the blue, but it was still a conversation about how I wanted to pass this opportunity because. I really wanted to do music.
[01:04:20] And I felt like I had upheld my end of the bargain as it were by concentrating getting my degree. You know, I got a two wound. It wasn't a first, it wasn't a two, two was just, I got a two, one, like did my degree. I can, I can have that now for the rest of it my days. And I'm still like, I'm still, uh, graduate.
[01:04:38] So like today in my forties, if I wanted to go back and do something, I, I have, uh, a bachelor of business studies in language behind me. So I always knew that that would, that would live on. And so did my parents, that was their logic. The whole time time was, get this achievement. And then if you want to take, as you call it the divergent path, you want to do something a bit [01:05:00] different.
[01:05:00] You'll have, have this sitting there as a security. Now maybe I could have even more forceful than 17 or 18 and said, I'm not going to college. And I want to become a rock star and do whatever. And I think knowing my parents, they probably would have figured out a way to make that. Okay. I think at the time the conversation was, there was no pushback.
[01:05:21] Put it that way. It wasn't like they taught, this is the greatest idea I've ever had. And you should definitely just follow your dream. So, and it was like a conversation back and forth going, you know, what are you giving up? What's it going to cost? Like the other thing was I had no money cause I was a student.
[01:05:35] So I was saying to them, not only am I not going to have money, but I want you to pay for me to go to this private music college. And I also want you to let me live in your house and let me borrow your car and put me on your insurance. And I'm like, you know, there was no sense of, you know, responsible young adults here.
[01:05:52] It was like, I still want to be, uh, a student, but it was because, you know, we always had that [01:06:00] open dialogue that they were like, he's not just saying this. He doesn't just, you know, he's not going off to do this music course. You know, to be cool or to, you know, to hang out with this girl or like they knew that I really, really, really wanted to pursue being a musician in some way, shape or form.
[01:06:17] It was the thing that excited me the most in the world. And they weren't going to simply tell me I couldn't do it. And I think so probably a lot of the, the praise in that conversation needs to go to them rather than to me, for being so brave to choose this thing. It wasn't that it was that they had fostered in me an openness to something like this, that look, we, you know, we think you should do what makes you happy.
[01:06:44] And if that is giving up a job opportunity, then at least you're giving it up with the safety net of you've done four years of hard work. You know, you worked hard in school before that, and you've gotten yourself to a point where I'm not dropping out of college to do [01:07:00] music. I think that would have been a very different conversation.
[01:07:04] Chris: [01:07:04] Yeah, where you, like, I, I'm always interested in people's relationship with money. Um, especially people who are coming up now because you know, there's hostile culture and, you know, the idea of money and being rich and, and, and wealth, and you know, that the amount of people that, um, I know, uh, you know, formally or informally that texts me about, um, investing now in stocks and this kind of stuff in Bitcoin and, you know, stuff that I don't, I'm not interested in, but my, my career is in, in, in as an investor, um, it's definitely growing.
[01:07:34] So money is a thing that people think about, but at the time, were, were you thinking about, Oh, I want to pursue this career in music because I'm going to be a rich rock star or was it I'm going to turn down the money in Russia and take this career that I know that I'm going to be a starving artist for awhile, you know, which equation where you, where are you going through at the time?
[01:07:54] Noel: [01:07:54] Definitely the last, yeah, I was like, Yeah, I could go now and be a, [01:08:00] be a rich guy in my twenties, you know? Um, and I could do that or I can literally start with zero. And not only that, I actually started with negative than less than zero because I took by the end of that year, studying jazz and professional musicianship, I had taken out a bank loan to set up a home studio.
[01:08:22] And in 2021 set up a home studio as a Mac book and maybe a microphone. But back then was, you know, a 3000 pounds, Yamaha sampler and a 1600 pound Roland vs eight 80 mixing desk. And all these things were on a Mac computer, which at the time was just unheard of that somebody would go out and buy a Mac computer.
[01:08:46] So I had to borrow a lot of money from the bank. Again, my parents signed me for it. I had no income. And then take a job. One will know this place in black earth limited the local petrol station in port moronic, [01:09:00] where having had the success of going to college, getting my degree, you know, being offered great jobs here, there, and everywhere that I now worked in the local petrol station behind the till and filling people's cars and washing their cars in the weekend for two year old tips and three-year-old sips here or whatever for two pounds tips, sorry, it was before the Euro.
[01:09:19] Um, but, but I, I chose to do that and be financially less well off because I was pursuing what I wanted to do. And it, it required that, that wasn't. I think we did that blindly. I didn't not think about that. Absolutely thought about that, but I decided that with the situation I have at home, my parents are cool.
[01:09:45] They're going to allow me to get this bank loan out. I'm going to pay them back. Obviously. Uh, they're going to allow me to live at home and. Make whatever small contribution they may or may not have made a kind of remember now too, you know, the weekly grocery shop or whatever, until [01:10:00] a point where I don't have to live at home anymore and I have enough money, but that was always the vision was I will make this a success.
[01:10:08] Uh, what, right now it's not going to be massively easy.
[01:10:14] Chris: [01:10:14] So do you think that that prescription, that people give of, you know, follow your dreams is the right thing to tell young people? Or would you tell them be practical and get a practical job? You know, get a good income.
[01:10:31] Noel: [01:10:31] Am I really gonna say this? I think you should always try to be happy. I'm sorry if that's tweet or if that's written on the clouds on Instagram posts, but I genuinely mean that, and I don't mean it in some kind of, you know, some manner that isn't achievable. What I mean is like, If you think you want to be an artist or a playwright, or you want to, you know, do metal work [01:11:00] and build some small little things you want to sell online.
[01:11:04] Like if that's, what's going to make you happy, then do that. But you have to, you have to be aware of this, the life you want to live. If part of you wants to be a metal worker and part of you wants to own a Porsche. Well, then you're going to have to be one of the best metalworkers in the world. So you have to try and find a balance of happiness to go, well, you know what?
[01:11:30] I'm, I'm prepared to work in an office in a regular nine to five. And then in the evening times, three days a week on all day on Sunday, I'm going to be in a studio and I'm going to, you know, bend and twist metal and do whatever it is until I create the perfect necklace or whatever it is I want to do.
[01:11:46] Like, so I'm not suggesting you either. You go, you know, you drop everything and become, you know, pursue your one in a million dream, or you forget all of that and just go and be safe and, you know, [01:12:00] become a chartered accountant and have your career. I think that you, if you strive for whatever it is, that's going to make you happy there.
[01:12:07] There's always going to be a sacrifice. There's always going to be a, uh, a push on a pole in that. And, and it's not a linear thing where you just go, well, if I achieve this, I'll be happy. It's, it's, it's about being happy on the journey. It's about, you know, finding a way to find maybe, uh, maybe balanced is the word Mo more than happiness, but to be able to just get up in the morning and like doing what is you're going to do.
[01:12:33] And maybe that is something that isn't brilliant all the time, but you know, in the evening time, that's the thing that you really want to do for, and for awhile, be that six months or two years or 10 years, you might have to work on struggle to get that balance. Right. But it can be done. You can find a balance in that striving for the career you want, or the dream you have applied at the same time, [01:13:00] putting food on the table and being realistic about money.
[01:13:06] I think that's the big thing that I see through my work. And then the big thing I take from that is, and also what you've said previously today is like, absolutely go for that goal, do stuff that makes you happy, but this thought process into it, you know, that's definitely a big thing. Um, what I can see, what I often see happen though, unfortunately, is.
[01:13:27] There's almost, there's too much focus then. And there's too much like it's, it's outward too driven and it's, I have to get each goal and it becomes the carrot in front of the, in front of the donkey. And it's, it's not achievable, but you hit that. You also touched on it there, which is about getting that balance, which is be driven, but absolutely enjoy the process along the way as well.
[01:13:48] Enjoy those moments, have the foreign as well while you're doing it. What else? It's kind of getting that balance of both happy, be driven, but have the form there as well and have that dialogue with yourself as well to kind of get to where you want to be. [01:14:00] Sorry. Just think sometimes this just pause for one sec, Chris.
[01:14:02] Sorry. I'm just actually getting a wave in the window here. Somebody needs to use the studio. Hello,
[01:14:07] Dan: [01:14:07] future down here. So it was around this time in our podcast with Dave dot, I believe Fergal Darcy started knocking on the window of the studio and telling him to get out because he needed the room. So bear with us while he, uh, relocate Dave and come back in and continue the podcast.
[01:14:20] Hope you're enjoying it so far. I will see you
[01:14:25] Chris: [01:14:25] and we're back. So, uh, for anyone that's listening, there's a small technical difficulty there. I didn't change of the studio for Dave. So we're back now and with a bang. So we were discussing, um, uh, prior to the detectable issue, the idea of taking your dream job or being practical and, you know, taking the safe bet.
[01:14:46] I don't always think that's the right equation. We sometimes create this false dichotomy between, um, you know, Going after your dream and, you know, being the starving artists are taking the practical route. I think in the modern world now, there are [01:15:00] all sorts of ways that, um, I used the word artist, uh, loosely, but that they can, you know, in effect, um, you know, make money from the thing that they enjoy doing.
[01:15:11] So I don't think it's the same thing as it used to be in the, you know, 50, 60 seventies up until the advent of our, the popularization of the internet, the internet now allows people to kind of in effect, um, do what they want so that, you know, I think that what's important to take away from what Dave was saying is that yes, you can go after your dream.
[01:15:34] Okay. But learn that there are trade-offs to be made a for awhile. You're not going to be the richest man in Babylon. Okay. For awhile, you're going to have to live at home with your parents or you, if you're prepared to make these decisions. And think about the long tail, uh, decision. Sorry, my puppy is at my door here.
[01:15:52] Making noises. If you can hear that you think about the long tail and making these decisions, um, then you can make that [01:16:00] decision. You can say, yes, I will, uh, become the artist or yes, I will be the metalworker or yes, I will be the mechanic because you want to eventually get into the form of the one. So I think it's really important that people hear that and go, yeah, I think that's the right piece of advice now.
[01:16:16] No one, if you take it here, I'm going to press pause. This is another tactical issue, but he's right. So one second. Yeah. It's
[01:16:25] Noel: [01:16:25] I suppose just bringing it on from that, the, um, and to, to, to where you're at now with, with, um, sorry, with, with work and with, with Dermot and, and, and friendships and different kinds of things like that, because I suppose a part of this part of the podcast is to normalize these conversations is to normalize, um, You know how friends are and how, how were, how were, if we're feeling great, that's, you know, that's, that's, that can be quite easy, but if we're not feeling, not in a good place, being able to have those conversations with friends [01:17:00] and something that I'd often find is say, people come on to talk to me that when they're not feeling great within themselves.
[01:17:07] Um, and they can, if, if their friends are positive or they seem positive around, like, I can't tell them, I can't talk to them, but I suppose, I suppose it's trying to get that message out with yeah, absolutely. Be able to talk to people. I know your colleague, Debra dharmas and when one of your kind of big friends and that you have other friends that would have gone through stuff as well, I'm sure.
[01:17:28] What, what was that like for you when they're coming to you telling, telling you that John was not feeling great or, and kind of how you took that and how you met Matt dam to, to kind of help them and, and to talk to them about it. Um, interestingly, there was a lot less of them common to me, like the conversations were had.
[01:17:55] Absolutely. Uh, but what, what I felt was I had [01:18:00] people to go to if, and when I needed them. So by having people talk about their mental health around me, as opposed to talk about their mental health, to me, if that makes sense, then I felt an openness that when I was struggling, that I said, well, hang on, I can go and have a conversation with Germany.
[01:18:22] I can go and have a conversation with Prezi, you know, because these are people who have normalized this conversation around me already. Um, and that was certainly a, a big driver in any struggles I had. I was able to. Of health, very comfortable talking about that. It wasn't there wasn't that maybe again, stereotypical kind of difficulty with, you know, Oh, I can't talk to this person.
[01:18:55] I had people like a toxic, I think that made a massive difference. [01:19:00] Uh, when, when trying to deal with that or deal with anything around those lines, it was, it was much more easier for me to do that because of the people I was, I was, you know, I around and
[01:19:12] Dan: [01:19:12] talking to.
[01:19:17] Chris: [01:19:17] Hmm. Have you been meditated? Have you like, had some of that stuff? Um, Dermot is disposing rubbed off on you. Do you have, like what I wanted to ask you when you feel stressed, you know, what, what do you do?
[01:19:28] Noel: [01:19:28] I meditate daily and I think you've alluded to this kind of pattern of behavior before, about how.
[01:19:38] I'm trying to meditate in a crisis for the first time is probably not usually helpful, whereas much like if you had to all of a sudden, you know, flip a car over because it was, you know, it was an accident or whatever, like it would be great if you had built up some strength beforehand, you know, similar thing, I suppose, mentally, from my point of view, I look at it and [01:20:00] go, I want to be, uh, you know, I want to be able to deal with the, the crisis moments.
[01:20:10] And in order to do that, I must build up a resilience and have tools that allow me to deal with those situations when they arise, because they always arise for everybody. Like, and I think that's one of the things maybe that, that is important to stress here, that while we're talking about my natural positivity, that I've either fostered or, or been blessed with or whatever that.
[01:20:36] There, isn't some kind of perception that unless you live a F you know, uh, panic free and incident free existence, that that's the only way to be happy, or that that's what I've led it isn't, you know, like there've been lots of things along the way that have been difficult to deal with. And I, I have built up a toolkit of, [01:21:00] uh, of what methods of dealing with those stresses so that they become lessened and minimized and, or at least dealt with, as opposed to minimizing the actual, the actual stress.
[01:21:15] It's just that the, how you deal with it can change. And I think that's key. So meditation for me, yeah. Dermot was doing it. Uh Brazee was doing it. Yeah. And I, I suffered actually with a bit of anxiety, um, for a while it was, it was easy to deal with. It was just some strange feeling every now and again. Uh, you would think that a man like me who talks to 200 plus thousand people a day would have no problem standing up in front of a room, people and talking.
[01:21:41] But I felt like if I had to stand up in front of say, the three of you, you know, before I meditated, before I kind of was on top of all of this, I would be quite anxious going into a conversation like this, and that's not the case anymore. And I've managed to improve my, [01:22:00] my approach to something like this, because I have worked out because I've put in time and effort and hours.
[01:22:09] And as a result, come out the other side and, and connect you with things a lot better. So when anxiety kind of crept up and an amplified a little bit, it got to the point where I was having an anxiety episode, maybe you would call it, you know, the heart rate, you know, spiking and. The first for someone like me, the inability to talk over or feeling constricted, which of course is not helpful when primarily what you do is tall.
[01:22:37] And I knew I had to do something about it, but again, I was surrounded by people who were not going to be negatively. Judgmental had already spoken openly either to me or around me about their own struggles. And I was able to go, Hey, I'm feeling this way. What do you think I should do? So there are three people in particular, Dermot is one [01:23:00] Brazilian and Keith buried the Memphis.
[01:23:02] There's another person who I know now it sounds like I'm name dropping into my center, pretty a celebrity phone book. But in reality, these are people that I felt like I was able to talk to. Uh, and, uh, and bread. Is he in particular just because he actually knew him last well, then the older two at that point.
[01:23:22] Um, and I suppose our first kind of. Not in our first meeting of the interaction we had, we had, we bonded over music quite a bit, but our first kind of non-music bonding was about my anxiety. And he just is an incredible human and just, you know, was able to listen to, you know, normalized, to give advice without being massively prescriptive, you know, just a, a really helpful way of looking at it and treating it like, you know, your mate would come to [01:24:00] you and go, you know what, I'm really tight hip these days.
[01:24:03] Have you have you don't yeah, I, I, that awhile ago I used to do these exercises that stretch my hip flexor. Maybe it's that, or maybe it's something in your arm it's actually, you know, it was almost that kind of approach of like, it was so normal and it was so okay. That it was just 20 try X and try wait.
[01:24:20] And one of the things was meditation. So. I think I jumped in maybe to the Headspace app first, or maybe it wasn't even an app at that point, it was a website and then a cam and then muse, muse is, I don't know if you've heard of that one, but it's yeah, actually you actually get a headset that goes with, it's kind of gamified meditation in a way that you, you put that it said on it reads your, your kind of neural activity during your meditation.
[01:24:47] And the more distracted you get and the less the birds chirp and the more you make the birds chirp, that means the more folks. No, there's an argument that maybe gamifying meditation is not the point. Like, in fact, it's the opposite opposite that, you know, [01:25:00] you, you can't meditate well or bodily, you just meditate and whatever happens happens.
[01:25:05] But what I found basically is that, uh, the body scan is one of the most basic meditations there is. And I just found that Dutch literally changed that aspect of my life, that by doing a daily body scan early in the morning, that I just. I dunno, I've just, I find my ability to, or the analogy to zoom out of a situation like to, uh, to observe a situation removed from very slightly removed from, it allows me to see the other person's point of view allows me to see a situation for what it is and not overblow it in my mind and catastrophize.
[01:25:48] And, you know, because what I found was when I was anxious about something, I'm sure you guys have talked about CBT and there's the behavioral part of CBT. [01:26:00] There's also the therapeutic part is CBT. And, you know, after the therapeutic part, you must actually do the behavior. You've got to physically go and do whatever the thing is that is causing your anxiety.
[01:26:11] But I would find that I had no choice, but to do the thing, cause I was booked in to, you know, be the host of a, of an event or openness, something or whatever. So I didn't need the balls to step up and do the B part, but it was just because it was what I had to do, but I always, it was fan that like on the back of it, it was way less terrible or it wasn't terrible.
[01:26:33] It usually it was really good. And I was like, Oh God, I spent so much energy worrying about a thing, anxious and not sleeping well and, you know, plank and gone into it. And then it was, it was great. I was really good. Everyone laughed. We all had a good time. You know, I got the main points across. I didn't mess up anything, all the things worried about it.
[01:26:53] So I think what happened then was I got the B part pretty quickly that, you know what [01:27:00] look you've. I had the proof that the behavior was, was being rewarded properly, that I was doing it properly. So then it was a case of. Having done CBT with a therapist for awhile that very quickly became probably more like Chris Knowles, maybe a situation where it was just a therapy session.
[01:27:18] It was just talking. Um, and after a while it even became the point where, you know, I just felt like I don't need to do this therapy anymore. What I do need to do is keep up my meditation because that is providing me with a really strong sense of perspective. And that's just a key thing for me that I can see, uh, you know, like making something into something bigger than it needs to be.
[01:27:52] Isn't, you know, this just isn't helpful. So meditation just seems to give me that, and I haven't progressed the meditation to the point where like, [01:28:00] you know, uh, like for example, Germany being a meditation teacher now, I mean, he's. He's not going to can levitate basically what he's meant to take. And then we can move to an elder astral plane.
[01:28:09] That's not for me. I have found a thing that works for me. It's a daily body scan meditation. I do it every single morning in all glamorous places of the car park and work, or I drive in park the car, drop my seat back, close my eyes. And I do 10 minutes to 15 minutes to 20 minutes. And that's what I do before I do anything other than drive to work.
[01:28:31] And it's not, I'm not sitting in this on Zen temple. I'm not on the side of a mountain. I'm not, I'm literally in a car. I'm like, it's a noisy car park. There's lots of drilling through the roof and there's delivery vans coming in and out. And it's where Dawn's Dublin city gets its deliveries and the truck's gone PP.
[01:28:48] Like, but again, it doesn't matter. All of this is just, it's just the background to which I do it too. And I find it just a really helpful way to [01:29:00] just take a few minutes. And let the thoughts that come across my mind, come across my mind. Yes. Continue to focus the, the body scan part of it is the nice distraction.
[01:29:12] And, uh, and I'm sorry, and I'm scanning my, but it's not a, I'm not following a lead body scan meditation. If that makes sense. It's me doing it. But you know, some days I don't get beyond my, my stomach. Do you know what I mean? Like I'm like, Oh, I just kind of come out of it and go right up. That's enough, you know?
[01:29:31] And okay. I didn't check my pelvis, but Hey, you know, I'm cool. I can keep going. Um, and I just find that really helps that kind of regularity, uh, of meditation is just a really powerful and tool is the wrong word. It's, it's like, um, it's like a muscle or something. It's like, it, it allows me to just calm myself in situations for previously, I would have found that different.
[01:30:00] [01:30:00] Chris: [01:30:00] Muscles good as a good term, because like they call it practice for a reason. Um, they say daily practice, you know, Zen Buddhism, it's, you, you do a daily practice daily practice, you call it Cezanne. Um, but you know, I was smiling as you were talking because, uh, the way I talk about mental health and the way you talk about, uh, mental health, you know, probably from your conversations with Prezi and Dermot, um, is very, very similar.
[01:30:29] So I like to talk about mental health from a preventative perspective. I feel too often we discuss mental health in terms of a reaction to an illness. Okay. And did the only time people are allowed to talk about is when they're ill or, uh, perhaps clinically diagnosed. When someone goes into work and they say I've been clinically diagnosed with depression and I am now taking medication.
[01:30:56] Somehow their boss thinks that gives them validity to take [01:31:00] days off. But what if you are not clinically diagnosed? What if like me, you have chosen, um, because of research that you don't want to take the accessorize, therefore nobody's ever clinically diagnosed me, but I've lived with depression since I was 12 or 13 years old.
[01:31:15] And I don't need someone to confirm to me what I feel, but you know, if we start thinking about it in terms of, and you used, I think you used an injury there as, as, as a metaphor or analogy. I love this analogy because if you have a hamstring injury, okay. And you go to your coach, I pulled my hamstring, your coach, doesn't go open up your skin there and show me your hamstring.
[01:31:38] That was pulled. They never do that. They go, okay. This is common. Okay. The, they, they, you know, um, we've built up a vernacular around it. You go get physical therapy, you know, you can get preventative physical therapy to, you know, prepare yourself for the fact that yes, you're going to have a time where your hip flexor may be [01:32:00] twinged, but if you do enough, prehabilitation, you're not going to pull it.
[01:32:04] It's the same thing with, um, daily practice of meditation. That's why people keep preaching the idea of start with a minute, just do a minute every day. I mean, every day is better than an hour on a Saturday and never do it again. Okay. Um, because it's practicing builds up over time and it's additive and it compounds and compounds and compounds compost till eventually some situation is going to happen to you where you must stand up in front of a crowd of a hundred people.
[01:32:31] And this has filled you with dread, I'm here to four, and now you've done all of this practice and all of a sudden you feel I'm, I'm on I'm in the moment that I'm. All of a sudden I can feel my feet. You know, sometimes I get caught in a moment where, um, I'm in a meeting or something and I can feel my finger or my nose.
[01:32:54] Uh, and I know it's because I've been meditating every day and in your meditation, it, it, all [01:33:00] it really does is train focus. So I normally, I don't do body scans. Um, I follow kind of like this past, and it was just like the breath nasal breath, or I pick like a, this is, we will know, but I call it my third eye.
[01:33:13] So it's on between my two eyes on my forehead here. And I pick a spot here. I focused on that spot and I continually focus on that spot. And when I lose concentration, because that's what it essentially is, I will try and come back to that spot and back to the breath. And it seems to happen to me more and more.
[01:33:33] Um, I've been doing this for probably 10 years now, more and more in everyday life where I'll be walking and I can suddenly feel the soles of my feet or. Uh, it'd be, um, you know, listening to music or something, and I can feel the music in my ear. I could feel the tone or the vibration. And that's not to say that, you know, you are all, your Dermot is enlightened.
[01:33:53] It just means that we're practicing something or practicing for the time that comes where you feel super [01:34:00] uneasy or you enter a room and you feel like everyone's looking at you. And I love that you mentioned their avoidance because one of the problems with, um, trade anxiety is that it can build this, um, fear of anxiety itself.
[01:34:15] And so people have asked me what my greatest fear is. My greatest fear is losing my mind because I've been to places with depression where I feel like I'm perhaps losing my mind. Um, but you don't want to avoid the situations, you know, leaving the house and seeing people fills you with grid. Then you're going to develop Agra phobia.
[01:34:32] If you don't get to the stage where you can go outside and detach. From what's happening, you know, and put it into talk about, uh, attachment or non-attachment, but it's essentially all of these things back to perspective and perception we talked about earlier, these things are going to happen to you.
[01:34:48] It's going to happen. Bad situations will happen. But if you can learn to control your equilibrium and maintain that kind of semblance of balance of your [01:35:00] emotions, then what's going on around you is less and less important. They're witnessing it. You're bearing witness to it. Meditation, you bear witness to your thoughts are the scent.
[01:35:10] You're doing your body scans. And all of a sudden you've got a pain in your stomach. You know, that pain in your stomach is not, you. You don't have to give it all of your emotion. You don't have to kind of attach yourself to that feeling in that you, if you concentrate it enough will take over your day.
[01:35:23] It's just a pain in your stomach. You can let it go. You can go back to, you're trying to pay attention to your pinky finger or whatever, but I think these things are. Fantastic for people that we're not trying to say here, that you have to go now and meditate, download the Headspace app now and meditate.
[01:35:41] No, you don't have to, you know, I don't do use any apps. I don't put anything on my head. I don't put anything on my body. I don't do the same meditation as Dave. Those, I probably don't do the same meditation as breezy or Dermot does. You know, it doesn't matter. I figured out my own way to do it. And eventually I realized that it's essentially the same thing that everyone else is doing, which is following [01:36:00] the breath through the nose.
[01:36:02] But it's not like everyone is going around and saying, now meditation is important. Yeah. Because it fucking works. That's why people are, you know, a lot of people are telling you to do it while it's away because it's coming popularizing. You know, it's why capitalism is trying to profit here from it. And, and there's these things you can pay for it to use it, but you don't need it.
[01:36:19] If you've got no money, nothing, you can still sit in your coach for 10 minutes. For half an hour or an hour, you know, it doesn't matter how long you do it either. Uh, you know, Dave know better than me at meditation and I'm no better than Dermot and dermis know better than, than Brenda. You're all just doing the same thing.
[01:36:34] We're all just trying to figure it out. And we're all just trying to, you know, camera shows down a camera nerves and learn about our own bodies. Sorry for the monologue I'm interviewing you. Sorry. You know, I know I'm talking here, but this is like a really important point. And everything you said is like everything we've been preaching.
[01:36:48] Um, and I feel like more people to talk about mental health and the way you talk about mental health, which is I do this to prevent the situation where I'm going to be anxious. I do. I look at [01:37:00] this from the point of view of method, health and mood as a spectrum again. Okay. It's you can be have low mood or high mood.
[01:37:08] It doesn't matter. That's meant to that. You know what? You're on a show that talks about mental health here. I didn't bring you on because you're going to tell them your story of depression. I brought you on because I feel like you have this sense of contentment and you have this disposition to life that.
[01:37:23] People like me want to take from, you know, you had an audience of one here at the very least. I I'm trying to learn from you and say, uh, dammit, why can he say that he is an 80%, uh, sense of happiness all the time? And I walk around feeling like a 40%. I struggled to get over 50% most of the time, um, because you have cultivated things in your life.
[01:37:43] And I am now cultivating things in my life with my experience with no, my experience with meditation, my experience with his podcast, my experience with decisions I'm making in my life. Um, so we are going to kind of wrap this up. We always finish with a, what we call the quick fire round. [01:38:00] So, uh, we kind of end on a high note, Dave, you know, similar to your show and we're not as professional as you guys, but we try.
[01:38:07] Um, so w we are going to ask you 10 questions. Okay. And, uh, three of the questions are always bespoke to the guests. And seven of them are kind of general questions. You know, what I'm hoping here is that we kind of codified the answers. After a hundred or so guests to go, what is the recurring theme? Yeah, there's already recurring to you, but I won't tell you what it is.
[01:38:27] Um, so, okay. You ready?
[01:38:30] Noel: [01:38:30] Yeah, let's do it. Yes
[01:38:32] Dan: [01:38:32] or no. This is your last game. So beating around the Bush
[01:38:37] Noel: [01:38:37] 10 questions. Come on and off seconds on the clock. We only know you only need a lot of time for questions. Come on under the pick of the bays. Okay.
[01:38:47] Chris: [01:38:47] Question one. Your house is burning down. Sorry to be morbid your guitar collection or your trainer collection.
[01:38:58] Noel: [01:38:58] Definitely guitars. [01:39:00] Okay. A hundred
[01:39:01] Chris: [01:39:01] percent question. Two favorite dad, joke of all time. And you gotta tell it.
[01:39:07] Noel: [01:39:07] Oh God. Um, it's actually, it's actually a joke. I read as a kid. And I don't know, it's the absurdity and the obviousness of it, but I've used it on my dad, jokes on the radio a couple of times and people seem to like it as well.
[01:39:23] What's red and invisible. No tomatoes.
[01:39:33] Oh yes. Yes.
[01:39:36] Chris: [01:39:36] That's a proper dad joke. Oh my God. Moving God swiftly, uh, question three 30 cows in the field. 28 chickens. How many didn't I know
[01:39:48] Noel: [01:39:48] this one. So I did this, I know you asked, I did this determined one time and he literally got so [01:40:00] ratty at me. Like he just, cause he spent an hour trying to figure out what I was saying.
[01:40:05] And then when I revealed it, I think it was the one of the few times you really wanted to punch me in the face.
[01:40:12] Dan: [01:40:12] Okay, well, for the uninitiated, I've heard this, but I, for the life of me cannot remember the
[01:40:17] Chris: [01:40:17] little riddle. It's annoying. It's so annoying to hear
[01:40:22] Dan: [01:40:22] the answer.
[01:40:23] Chris: [01:40:23] There you go. Dave
[01:40:26] Noel: [01:40:26] Kearney cows in the field.
[01:40:28] 20 seconds. Yeah, the answer. Yeah.
[01:40:31] Dan: [01:40:31] 10.
[01:40:34] Chris: [01:40:34] Okay. We'll leave it at that. People have to figure out why, figure it out. Okay. I'm not going to explain it. We're not going to sleep, but if you're in depth. Okay. All right. Question four, name something weird or absurd that you love
[01:40:53] Dan: [01:40:53] and sync.
[01:40:57] Great.
[01:41:01] [01:41:00] Chris: [01:41:01] They're amazing. Don't like put whatever you can, like, whatever you want question for like name something you couldn't live without.
[01:41:11] Dan: [01:41:11] Bass guitar,
[01:41:13] Noel: [01:41:13] not guitar guitar, basically.
[01:41:15] Chris: [01:41:15] Right. Question six. Okay. Question six. If you were the last person on earth, what would you still do?
[01:41:24] Dan: [01:41:24] Play the bass.
[01:41:28] Chris: [01:41:28] Nice. Okay. Question seven. If you could broadcast a message to everyone on earth, what would it be?
[01:41:36] Dan: [01:41:36] Well,
[01:41:38] Noel: [01:41:38] um, find fun.
[01:41:45] Dan: [01:41:45] Great.
[01:41:45] Chris: [01:41:45] Not listen to the FMLA. No,
[01:41:46] Noel: [01:41:46] don't do that.
[01:41:48] Chris: [01:41:48] Okay. Question eight. What advice should young people ignore?
[01:41:55] Noel: [01:41:55] Uh, well, young should ignore
[01:42:04] [01:42:00] Dan: [01:42:04] that.
[01:42:06] Noel: [01:42:06] I don't know if it's advice that is given, but the perception that you know, that other people have the answers that older people have figured it out, that whether that's financial and, you know, money is the answer or the big house or whatever. And I think maybe it's a bit more exasperated, uh, now because of social media and the ability to S to see, like before I used to get a monthly metal magazine and see a guy playing a gig and, you know, drinking a beer in a terrible dressing.
[01:42:40] And afterwards you'd be like, Oh my God, it's all I want to do in my life, whatever. Whereas now you might see a tic talker or a vine guy, or somebody with,
[01:42:49] Dan: [01:42:49] you know, a beautiful
[01:42:50] Noel: [01:42:50] car and an amazing house and go, that's it. That's what I want to do. I don't know. So it's probably pretty cliched, but just don't believe everything you see and don't think [01:43:00] that it equates to happiness.
[01:43:03] Chris: [01:43:03] Great advice. There is no discovery except for self discovery. Question nine, if you feel overwhelmed, what do you instinctively do? Breathe,
[01:43:13] Dan: [01:43:13] breathe
[01:43:14] Noel: [01:43:14] deeply. So, yeah, and this is what, this is nothing I've done all my life, but it's something I've done when this, since I've faced anxiety. And since I've a key word, excepted anxiety, um, I breathe.
[01:43:30] So as deep as I can in through my nose, without making it seem really obvious to whoever's near me, that I'm doing some deep breath, but that's what I do. And, and particularly if I'm, if I'm alone, I'm able to be alone and feel overwhelmed. Breathing is just a, a massive, a massive calmer of I'll say my body, but I presume everybody's body.
[01:43:52] Cause we're all built the same way, but, uh, it just, it, it, it's something I've learned that when I meditate, I breathe deeply. [01:44:00] That's what I'm cam. So therefore, when I need to reach for that, that's what I do.
[01:44:07] Chris: [01:44:07] Great answer. That's the answer. I think I would give him that or move question 10, finish this sentence.
[01:44:14] At the end of the day, it all comes down to
[01:44:29] Dan: [01:44:29] you've
[01:44:29] Noel: [01:44:29] used the word quite a lot. And I think maybe this is it's probably needs lots of qualifications, but I'll just say the word it comes down to contentment. And I mean that in a hugely general sense, but also in a really specific sense, seek contentment, not success, not financial, not the perfect job at the perfect time.
[01:44:51] Can you be content with what you have right now and what your plans are to what you want to have soon? You [01:45:00] know, are you happiness? It seems like a to, I dunno, it's not the right word, maybe contentment, but you know what I mean? Like
[01:45:12] it's, it's, there's a peacefulness to that's. Yeah. Yeah. It's it's that, that you only find contentment when you find a bit of happiness, a bit of unhappiness, a bit of negativity, a bit of positivity, a bit of happiness, a bit of fun, a bit of drama, like contentment is all of those things. It's not, it, it's not a goal in itself, but I suppose, yeah, it all comes down to contentment.
[01:45:44] Chris: [01:45:44] Dave, when you wrote in the book, you know, Zen and the art of broadcasting, I feel like it's oozing out of you. I would read your book. Well, what'd you remember?
[01:45:52] Noel: [01:45:52] Maybe. So at some point there there's lots of things I want to do and still, and there's lots of things. I'll turn my hand to and. I'll have fun doing [01:46:00] them.
[01:46:00] Uh, but yeah, there there's a book there somewhere.
[01:46:02] Chris: [01:46:02] Definitely. You got it. Let's penguin random house. Now, if you're listening, Dave Morton wants to write a book. Okay. We're going to wrap it up here. This has been episode seven, Dave, Maurier an absolute legend. Thank you very much for giving us your time. Um, and thank
[01:46:17] Noel: [01:46:17] you for having me.
[01:46:18] I've been really enjoying the podcast, by the way you said that, um, you know, you had done your research and you, you knew a lot about me and I knew nothing about you until yesterday. Well, that's not true because I've listened to a couple of episodes and I've learned a fair bit about all three of you, but, uh, look, I think what you're doing is really, really important.
[01:46:33] I think it's a brilliant and unique way to handle this topic that we all need to talk about. The more we talk about it, the better it's going to be for us, for everyone. And the way you guys are doing it is, is brilliant. I'm really enjoying the podcast and I'm proud to be a part of it. And thank you very much for asking me.
[01:46:55] I hope I gave you some, some helpful stuff along the way, but it's a, it's a great [01:47:00] thing you guys are doing. And, uh, I think you should be very proud of.
[01:47:05] Chris: [01:47:05] Thanks, man. You got killed every time we do this, I forget to ask for the blogs. Do you have anything you would like to, um, you know, tell our listeners about or anything you'd like to sell to our loyal listeners?
[01:47:17] Are you want to listen to the show? What, what, what would you
[01:47:19] Noel: [01:47:19] like? Okay, well, yeah, look, first things first. If you get a chance to tune in today, FM, you can get an app. You can just do it anywhere in the world. It's on 24, seven, I'm on from 9:00 AM. Irish time until noon. If you want a bit of fun and a bit of distraction and a bit of crack, then the, and Dave show is definitely something I would ask you to listen to.
[01:47:37] We also podcast everything. So you, wherever you get this podcast, you can also get dermatitis, dive stuff. So after you listened to one DMC, give us a listen as well. Um, No, it actually helps me remind to me that I should be publishing or publicizing my wife's art. Uh, she's amazing. She's an artist. Um, she recently settled business in the end.
[01:47:58] Beautiful. [01:48:00] Thanks. No, yeah, it's great. It's it's uh, she's got a really brilliant style. People seem to have really connected with it. Uh, effectively it's animals. It's as simple as that, it's like 15 or 16 animals for sale on our website, as she's just starting off at something she's always done, but never done professionally.
[01:48:16] So, uh, it's been a journey for her and one of them proud to kind of see her do and go along with her and some of it's. So Tracy Sheridan art is her website. She's T R a C Y. This is a couple of ways you can spell that. Uh, Tracy Sheridan, art.com. You get a chance at go and have a look and they're really nice limited edition top quality prints.
[01:48:35] So definitely that's what I should be pushing, not, not radio show for a massive marketing budget.
[01:48:42] Chris: [01:48:42] Good man. And we will put all that in the show notes. We'll put the actual website itself. So, you know, there's no problems there. Click on that, go buy a print or a piece of art. Um, thank you very
[01:48:52] Noel: [01:48:52] much. Thank you guys.
[01:48:54] Thank you. Thanks.
[01:49:11] [01:49:00] Dan: [01:49:11] recap time. Thank you all for listening to our episode of Dave Moore, what a guy and we learned a lot and now we're gonna. Talk about what we learned? No. What did you learn? I learned
[01:49:20] Noel: [01:49:20] lots of Daniel. Um, there was genuinely lots of that's a good day in school. Sure. It was like I said it in the podcast from, from, um, before we started the podcast.
[01:49:32] And certainly when we started a podcast, it was Dave or someone that I want to get on. Um, just because it was it's the way in which he lived his life. Um, which really I found really interesting. And the two big things that stood out for me was the, he said it very early, very early on. And it was something I wrote down just to note here and circle this.
[01:49:50] It was the word contentment. Um, and that's something that I talk about a lot in my practice and I'm trying to, in my own life, You know, from trying to chase all that, to be happy that to be happy. [01:50:00] Um, but it's actually what I find is that contentment it's, it's, it's, it can be hard to, to kind of attain that, but it's more realistic and it's more balanced and it's not safer, but it's, it's, it's just more solid and consistent.
[01:50:14] Um, I think that's a really important one for especially young people to find that because it starts to aim, aim more towards that. Um, the other thing, and, and this is something that I think helps them find contentment with himself and with other people is his openness to people. And there's openness, actually, not just people, but is his openness to people and his openness to himself.
[01:50:37] Um, like I'm one of the big stories for me was swapping fancy paper and a skill there. And as he said, I'm beating the head off some fella, you know, playing bulldog and one minute, and then he's fun swapping fancy paper to like the other. And what is fancy paper, literally fancy paper. It looks fancy, like shiny, shiny paper, a lovely patterns, you know, kind of like a what's the origami [01:51:00] paper.
[01:51:00] You'd often see some things like that, but it's, and then the world got Pokemon. It's like that kind of openness. Yeah. We often think of people. We think of very outwards people that makes more sense, but you're also people. So if you're able to be nice to other people, it's be nice to yourself and a great way to do that is to be nice to yourself.
[01:51:20] And then it's easy to be nice to people and to be nice to people, it's easier to be nice to yourself. And that brings a full circle then back to like live your life. In a certain way. It's not just about living your life, you know, one way, and then doing all the tips and tricks and it's like, Oh, how can we do this?
[01:51:35] Help me do it. It's like, ultimately it's about living your life a certain way. And that's certainly what I got from Dave. Yeah. Yeah.
[01:51:43] Dan: [01:51:43] I think it was cool that like, I think we all kind of felt that after we chatted, he came on the call, you know, and we just all felt like we were as made as quickly, which we feel like with all our guests, but, you know, particularly like, you know, Dave just spent like, he's, I feel like I could bring them up and have a [01:52:00] challenge.
[01:52:00] Genuine
[01:52:00] Noel: [01:52:00] was too.
[01:52:00] Chris: [01:52:00] I won't
[01:52:01] Dan: [01:52:01] stay here listening. I won't ring you in the middle of the night, but I felt, I feel like I could, if I needed it, Chris, what did you, what did you, uh,
[01:52:07] Chris: [01:52:07] what'd you take away? Um, I think this idea of learned optimism is important, uh, because it's something that I've tried to instill in myself is it's quite easy to, to become habitually pessimistic.
[01:52:21] I think if we can insert positive language and. Try. Um, you know, for a while with NOLA, I was, he didn't really like the way I was expressing this, but I was trying to say that I'm like acting or I'm faking it for awhile. You know, I'm going to fake being optimistic for one, see what happens. And ultimately, um, it worked because it does become habitual.
[01:52:44] You know, you, you, you can change your default responses. You know, we've talked about the plasticity of the brain before, um, and you can change the way you respond to situations and you can embed positive emotions in previously, uh, negative memories. Um, and I, [01:53:00] I think it's important to think about it that this idea of optimism is something.
[01:53:03] Yeah, we can learn. We can change the mind and I would have been a quite pessimistic person. Um, you know, I thought being skeptical. It was cool, but. I don't feel like that's necessary for, you know, a joyful life now. So I think, you know, learning optimism and I'm going, gonna continue to try and learn to be more optimistic.
[01:53:24] So I kept trying to codify is contentment. Um, I think it's very, very important. The other thing I really liked about Dave is just, um, you know, the idea of satire or humor, or he he's curated a life where laughter feels his day. And I certainly don't laugh enough. I take things very seriously and laughter for me, sometimes it's something that I don't, um, I don't endorse it and I don't accept it.
[01:53:55] And you know, I'm in my own head a lot. So I find it difficult to be in the moment with [01:54:00] people to laugh, but I'm trying my best to, um, To foster more laughter and to have more comedy. And you know, I'm not the kind of person who watches comedy shows and, you know, my friends would be exchanging funny movies to stuff.
[01:54:12] I never watch funny movies. I feel it. I feel like if
[01:54:15] Dan: [01:54:15] you were to watch like a will Ferrell movie, you'd be trying to like dissect the dichotomy of the
[01:54:20] Chris: [01:54:20] cards. That is, that is partially the problem. You know, I can't, I'm not that I can't, I'm getting much better, but I find it difficult to just engage with the funness of it, you know, like just engage with the silliness of it.
[01:54:35] Um, and I'm, I'm getting better at it because I'm getting more and more mindful and less and less in my own head. But, you know, I want to try and find more laughter and, you know, spend more time with people who do make me laugh and less time with people who are, um, you know, more serious, I guess. So they're, they're my two away
[01:54:54] Dan: [01:54:54] I can make you laugh right now, man.
[01:54:57] Really? Yeah. Ready? Right. Yeah, [01:55:00] we, we PP.
[01:55:03] Chris: [01:55:03] I told you,
[01:55:07] Dan: [01:55:07] uh, everyone, thanks so much for listening to Dave's episode, and I hope you enjoyed it as much as we did. We will see you next week when we have another fantastic, uh, Irish guests coming in, joining us all the way from our Bay. There's your hint. I'll talk to you, then have a great week. Stay safe, everybody.
[01:55:23] Peace out.
[01:55:28] thank you all so much again for listening to this episode of the one DMC podcast. If you enjoyed us, please follow us on social media. We'd really appreciate that we are at on DMC podcast on every platform. There is, I suppose, if you want to learn more about what we do, you can check us out@wwwdotonedmcpodcast.com.
[01:55:45] That's pretty much it. We'll see you next week. Everyone stay safe, behave and have a fantastic fantastically. Oh.
