Disclaimer
Transcripts may (read: definitely will) contain typos. We use software to transcribe the show and American artificial intelligence is apparently not intelligent enough to understand the Irish accent; go figure!
In time, if people read these, we'll have them fully proof read by human intelligence and corrected for grammar and syntax.
_________
[00:00:00] Chris: [00:00:00] Welcome back folks to the one DMC podcast. This is Chris, your cohost. And this week we got the pleasure of sitting down with Keith Walsh. Keith is just a lovable and gregarious character. I think it will be very hard for anyone to meet Keith and not enjoy his company. And he's forming. You have to FM fame, the lead anchor on the breakfast show.
[00:00:17] He moved on to new and better things. Now with the Keith Walsh podcast, he does caring with Keith and he's got a show coming out later this year, I think called pure mental. This episode was, um, heavily on the mental health side. It was mainly about the topic of therapy and how that has helped Keith on his journey.
[00:00:35] Um, throughout the years. You know, over the last few years, Keith has been very vocal and outspoken about the topic of therapy, especially for men. So without further ado, this is episode 14 with Keith Walsh. I really hope you enjoyed the episode. And before we start as always, I would love for you to share the episode with someone that you think may like it or someone that you think it may help.
[00:00:59] And if you [00:01:00] have time, it would be absolutely lovely. If you would leave us a review on Apple podcasts or follow us on Spotify, or even, you know, maybe leave us a comment on social media, you can DM us. We're trying to be as active as possible and getting back to everyone that messages us. So enjoy the show,
[00:01:17] Keith: [00:01:17] jump out the bed.
[00:01:18] I got a enter entering the currency to send to the
[00:01:24] a morning cup of butter.
[00:01:30] Noel: [00:01:30] Hi. Hi guys. Great to have you on. Um, I'm not sure if you've listened to, I'm sure you've listened to most of the episodes. Of course, maybe they haven't listened to the most recent one, but what we're trying to do with the start, what we are doing at the start and with good reason, um, I think you'll definitely understand this one and we're just kind of checking in with people and seeing how they're doing, but not in the good old Irish way or the international way of our grand general generic answer kind of insanitary stuff.
[00:01:59] Um, [00:02:00] so as I always say on that note, Keith Welch, how are you?
[00:02:05] Keith: [00:02:05] I'm really good. I'm really good. Um, I'm very lucky to be really good. I feel very positive. Um, I feel, uh, I'm very content with things at the moment. Uh, I have moments of anxiety that, uh, that I, that I have to is to handle now, whereas. Whereas I wouldn't necessarily have before, you know, bad days would have turned into bad weeks would have turned into bad months, whereas I can sort of, I figured all that out now and I can reassess things and I have, I have the tools, uh, I know a lot of people, um, this is going to be a very difficult time for a lot of people, uh, with things opened up again, um, the word returning to inverted commas, normal, um, and people are freaked out and I've had several people get in touch with me recently looking [00:03:00] for a name of a, of a therapist and more like, I would always have people get in touch with me and I passed them on, but more than it's been a lot more, more than, than usual, you know, it's, it's, it's a little bit concerning, but it's good that people know that they can, that there's people that can check in with and get a number.
[00:03:17] And, and at least they're thinking that way, you know, some people,
[00:03:20] Noel: [00:03:20] yeah, it's actually it's. It is what was I talking to this just there the other day. It was, it was my mom. Um, my mom's obviously still in Ireland, I'm here in Australia. So it's, it's quote, unquote being thankly normal for us. No, there's other kind of stuff.
[00:03:34] Cause if you can feel quite claustrophobic here that you literally can't get out. Um, but I was just chatting with her and kind of exactly like the, as you're saying, there's going to be another kind of wave, uh, we'd say of anxiety and from people that have kind of just gotten really used to being indoors that I'm being used to be like, I have to go out and meet people again and kind of, obviously there's going to be lots of people that just divorced and at the same time to try and get out, [00:04:00] put, there's gotta be another part of that.
[00:04:01] That's like, especially people getting back into the office and then to work and different things like that, but it's um, yeah, it's certainly going to be interesting, but I th I, alongside of that, I think it's going to be useful that. The there is a more of an open, there is more of an openness to counseling and the, and the possibility of talk therapy and stuff like that, as well as just talking to me and saying here, I'm not feeling great.
[00:04:23] Um, which is one of the reasons why we're doing this. And one of the reasons why you, you spoke out so much about it, which is great. Um, but I think there's also the great thing as well, is that with people being at home, they're more used to the likes of zoom. So that's opening doors of, for that as well for, for, for people to kind of see attend counseling, um, over zoom, as well as the face-to-face, they're kind of the normal kind of stuff.
[00:04:47] Um, I. I in researching it, I found it really interesting that I'm really enjoyable of, of your own podcast and the chats that you had with your own guests. And, and I'm looking forward to come back [00:05:00] and listen to it. And John credence one tomorrow morning, um, and then podcasts that you've been on. And, um, it was interesting hearing about, um, I suppose you growing up and us we'll always go back with any person often, whether it's a guest or whatever, just chatting with mates or, or finding out about people to kind of go back a bit and to understand where they came from.
[00:05:22] Um, but what was, what was it like growing up for you as, as a kid and kind of where you grew up? Obviously you're, you're, you're, you've written the play and you're, you're, I'd say you're chomping at the bit to get that out and, and actually deal with that called pure mental, which is based on your life and, and different stories of your life.
[00:05:39] And we'll come back to that again a little bit later, but what, yeah. What was it like, who was Keith waltz as a kid growing up? And what was it like growing up here?
[00:05:49] Keith: [00:05:49] Well, I mean, like growing up was just, uh, as far as I was concerned, it was just normal kids. Uh, I grew up, I grew up, uh, I was born in the seventies.
[00:05:59] I'm very [00:06:00] old. Um,
[00:06:04] my formative years were spent in the eighties and, uh, yeah, like, I mean, it's funny because like the more I find out about myself and the more I dwell on, on, on things, and I have moments of clarity. Whereas, you know, if you'd asked me 20 years ago, like I even remember saying to my mother at one point, uh, and she, she, she kinda said it back to me recently.
[00:06:31] I went to study acting in college when I was finished school. And I remember, and I remember my mother actually reminded me recently, but I said to my mother at one place, Oh, I wish I had like some, some drama in my life. You know, some trauma, because I've nothing to. I have nothing to, to use in my, you know, because you're in acting class, they're like, Oh fuck.
[00:06:51] If gold go to a place where you felt sad or you felt lonely, or you felt that I'd be like, Oh, I just had a normal upbringing, you know, just normal kid. I [00:07:00] didn't have any bad things happen to me, you know? Um, and you know, little did I know it because your, your upbringing is your upbringing and it's, it's, it's just normal for you.
[00:07:12] But it's only in later years, like I was talking to my counselor recently and I said, I actually just only recently remembered having a panic attack when I was very young that's first of all, I didn't know it was a panic attack. And second of all, I didn't know what that might mean or what might that have meant for me as a young man.
[00:07:34] Um, and I remember being in six class and I had a brother who was quite handy with his fists. And not my brother. He was a brother, he was a teacher. Um, so I remember being in the cloak room trying to get my coat off and knowing that I was going to be laid in the class. Cause all the other kids were gone and I couldn't get the zip.
[00:07:58] Zip was stuck. [00:08:00] I couldn't get the zip down. I don't know what it was, the six class, fifth class. And I just remember that moment having like, it, it, it just came back to me recently. I had a panic, I had a full-on panic attack in that cloakroom like, uh, like thinking I'm going to wet myself. There's something bad's going to ha this is like, totally like, just overcome with anxiety.
[00:08:22] Um, and the reason I mentioned that is because I obviously had a lot of anxiety as a young man that I didn't think was anxiety that I just thought that's me. This is just me. That's normal. That's just how this, how this is just how people feel. This is just what's going on. But it's hard to talk about your childhood.
[00:08:43] Um, as I said, like I told you a different story 20, 30 years ago then than, than what I now know of myself and what I went through. And, um, the one thing I always like to say it to people is cause, cause there's a, there's a, when you, when you [00:09:00] have a conversation like this and you talk about anxiety and fear and stress and people go, Oh look, everybody has anxiety and fear and stress these days, everyone's out, everyone's talking with Tara, everyone's gone to therapy too.
[00:09:10] It's too much, you know, stop talking about it. Cause you're making it worse. No one's saying that anxiety is bad. No one's saying that stress is bad. No one's saying that any of this stuff is bad. Like life has, as I always say, life is arbitrary. Life is a struggle. Sometimes, you know, we're going to have bad times.
[00:09:27] You're going to have good times. That's just the way it is. And it's just about finding the tools to make the struggles in more enjoyable. Or figuring out how to deal with the struggles you've had or figuring out how to deal with your anxiety. And I grew up in a place where you didn't talk about anxieties.
[00:09:45] You didn't talk about concerns. And if you did talk about they weren't addressed properly. Um, you know, we grew up in a culture that was like Mon and grow a pair of balls. Um, and if shit was happening to you, it was your shit deal with us. [00:10:00] Um, there was no, there was very little sympathy. Um, and for children in the eighties where I grew up in the Midlands, especially we were pretty much second class citizens.
[00:10:09] Like our concerns, weren't anyone else's concerns. They certainly weren't the concerns of the adults around and the physical violence was metered eyes on the child. They probably deserved it. And it was probably your fault because you did something to warrant a slap from, uh, from an adult. Um, I don't know any court in the land for that we could use as an argument.
[00:10:30] If you went into a nightclub and just punch someone. I don't think the judge would say, you're probably looking for it. Um, I mean, if you, they might've been in a bygone era, but you know, it's it's, it was, it was, it was a strange time and we really need to start talking about it more honestly.
[00:10:48] Chris: [00:10:48] Do you think Keith, with the benefit of, of posterity and, you know, hindsight is always 2020, do you think looking back like that and now with the benefit of your own, um, experience with talk therapy that you have become a [00:11:00] better parent, like, does it inform you, does your experience, obviously your experiences, child childbirth does the way you look at it now, this new kind of objective perspective you've gained, does it change the way you parent?
[00:11:14] Keith: [00:11:14] Yeah, like right from the get go, we have this four people in this house. Uh, there's me. There's my wife's design. There's Ana and there's Finn. Um, and I always said like, everybody's feelings are relevant. Um, and everybody has a say. Now that's always been my philosophy. I haven't always been great as, uh, putting that into practice.
[00:11:41] Um, and now I feel like I'm really doing the work on that, that the, the, the problem is we, we step somebody I've watched a guy talking recently. It was probably on Tik TOK, one of these videos, and he was talking about his dad and his dad retiring. And his dad was a [00:12:00] very, very strict man in the house. Uh, he used corporate punishment.
[00:12:04] He was very strict. It was very strict rules. They had the book, his self, and his brother had to behave a certain way as to grew up. And this mom was retiring. So the two brothers went to the retirement party and they could not fucking believe this guy who was at the retirement party. They were like, It was their father.
[00:12:24] And they were like, who is this man? He was like, middle of all. He was making these jokes. He was like, he was laughing his head off. All his colleagues were just, you know, the way his colleagues were talking to me, they're like, who the fuck are you talking about? Like, who is like the, the trick is I think what parent thing, and this is the work that I'm doing on myself to be the same person as a father, as you are on the streets, as you are a husband, as you are the, the diff the problem for a lot of men is we, we we're w we take on different roles for different places and for different spaces.
[00:12:59] And it's [00:13:00] trying to drill down into who you really are and be that person and be that person all the time to everybody. And obviously I have to be a good person. Don't decide you're, don't decide you're a Dick. And then just be that way to everybody.
[00:13:15] Noel: [00:13:15] It's a good, it's a good, a good place to start.
[00:13:18] Keith: [00:13:18] So like my, my work now is still ongoing as a father because still trying to connect with my son.
[00:13:28] Um, and my daughter put to a lesser degree. I think I've, I've embedded what my daughter, the issue with my son is when he got to an age where he reminded me of myself, uh, I definitely had issues connecting with them because of my feelings towards myself and also what I went through as a kid, all that came flooding back and my treatment at the hands of my parents.
[00:13:53] So that, so that's all kind of like, there's a, there's a lot of untapped it's untangling. That's all, [00:14:00] you know, there's no, and it's not, even when I talk about my parents, that's not, that's not me pointing the finger of blame. It's just about me looking at what went on and I it's just me trying to untangle everything.
[00:14:10] So I can be my real self in the moment with my son. Uh, uh, at any given in any given scenario, you know, if he's in trouble or if he's done something great that I react, uh, as real as I can. And as myself, you know, does that make sense?
[00:14:29] Noel: [00:14:29] Yeah, absolutely. It's uh, because, uh, just to come back what you were saying there of, um, kind of when you were saying about your dad and my own father's retirement too, I always remember one of the lads that I would have grown up with.
[00:14:42] He actually ended up working with my dad and Aaron, they come over. Cause I know, I know at the same kind of what I'm going to say to you are going to look at me because the Lord said it to me when I was at my dad's retirement, I was like, Oh, that's fucking sound like, you know, and, and I'd often I used to be in and you'd see that the chat, because my dad was a real large lad having the chats and stuff [00:15:00] like that, but kind of just from Jose, his own stuff.
[00:15:03] And. No to be different way at home. And then I kinda, I, I, unfortunately he died quite young. He was only 67, but, um, so I didn't fully get a chance to see that, but, um, yeah. And, and you just see the pity of it, but, and then, like you said, coming back to kind of be yourself and kind of drop away the masks.
[00:15:23] Well, I think we'll all have a slight difference in how we are with different situations, but it's trying to get the difference in our boss in those different situations to as minimum as possible. Um, and it's trying to get there and a great way to get there is, as you were saying is to talk about this stuff because, and then to come back to what you just said there with the 12 year old, that you're reminded of by your song, the 12 year old Keith is still there.
[00:15:51] Like, that's the toy he's just coming in. It's like, he just comes into 45 year old kid's body and said, all right, I'll drive, I'd take control here. And he like. [00:16:00] We just wouldn't do that the same way with the courts or whatever like that. You wouldn't do that to a child, but it's, it's kind of what we do to ourselves.
[00:16:06] But again, I think this has worked kind of absolutely note and you've touched on it there it's because I suppose someone listening, that's not used to this kind of work with Jesus blaming his parents. That's a bit shitty and it's, it's absolutely not. It's it comes from, um, a family therapist called Virginia sat here.
[00:16:23] And if you haven't heard of her, whoever's listening or key to anyone here, she's. She was amazing. I think she, she passed away a number of years ago. Does this videos over her on YouTube, um, conducting, um, therapy sessions. And she brings families in she's polling and dragging the dads around and the parents and you sit here and chatting away, but it was a great, she was an amazing therapist and amazing principles of kind of, of her approach.
[00:16:46] And one of the key ones for me that I always took from it was this no fault, no blame. We're objectively looking at, if you look at a key to a cake now, um, our soup cause he likes soup. Keats soup now says what ingredients goes into the perfect [00:17:00] soup or what ingredients go into that. And if we look at objective, let's say, well, my mom did this.
[00:17:05] My dad did this. My uncle did this. My auntie did this. It, it, it brings away the, um, that anger that the finger pointing the blame. It's a no fault, no blame atmosphere. Cause I think that's really important because if we don't do that, what can happen is there's a conflict in our mind because there's one side of us that's really angry.
[00:17:23] And it's important that you let that out because you blocked that for years. And thankfully with your, with your therapist, you were able to kind of get that up with yourself. You're able to get there. And then with the assistance and the got a bit more guidance from your therapist, you're able to get there.
[00:17:35] But what can happen is on the other side of your head, there's like Abra. I love this person. Cause I mental of this person. Ah, so there's this massive conflict that goes on. I like, I love them, but I'm angry at them. Oh no, I can't believe that. So I, we blocked the stuff down so that the kind of the safety mechanism, that's kind of the way I talk about things without the safety mechanism.
[00:17:55] There is, if you have the approach of, well, this is a no fault, no blame atmosphere. I'm [00:18:00] objectively looking at the situation saying when mom did this. This was the consequence for me. Okay. I'll call it. Like, it's like I'm giving myself permission to look at that. What was that kind of maybe, I don't know if you did it exactly like that, but what was that kind of journey for you or the conflict there of kind of like being angry?
[00:18:19] I was like, Oh, like, I'm actually kind of this, this thing in my body, I'm angry at you. What was it like dealing with that are discovering that and then dealing with that for you?
[00:18:30] Dan: [00:18:30] Uh,
[00:18:32] Keith: [00:18:32] yeah, I mean, it, it, it, it's sort of like it's, um, it's a roller coaster is the best way to describe it because there was points where I was very angry.
[00:18:41] Uh, then there's points where I was, you know, I, I, I talked to myself and therapist about, you know, forgiveness or, you know, how do you, how do you move on? How do you, where do you put that anger? My, I would say that my parents. [00:19:00] Still live in a place that I can't go anymore. So no, it's not nice. And so, so they live, they live in a distortion, so this is what made my life so difficult.
[00:19:16] And, and again, this is not pointing to pointing the finger of blame. This is just how it was. Yeah. I would often visit the distortion of, and the distortion was, well, this is how life was, this is their version of events. You know, now my version of events were different to them events. So anytime, you know, the, where, the, where the, what did he say?
[00:19:40] Where the, where the, where the, what did he say? Something beautiful, like where the tire meets the tire? Yeah, that's that made, that was a very, that was very difficult for me. And, uh, I needed to, so one of the things I did was I addressed. As a 40 something year old mind, I went [00:20:00] back to my parents and they addressed what happened when I was going on when I was growing up.
[00:20:06] And, and in fairness to them, there was an apology and all that kinds of stuff. And we had a chat and there was tears and all that kinds of stuff. And, but, but I think I had hoped that they would, that they would come along the road with me and try and do some of the work and not necessarily with me, but to, to, to be a bit more honest with what went on, what I found was that they, they, they were happy enough to apologize that I couldn't really come along the road with me.
[00:20:37] So I kind of had to leave them where they were. I don't really engage with them much anymore, but that's okay. I don't, I haven't, you know, people talk about like, there's a severity in cutting someone out of your life and it's not like, I'm not like I've put someone out of my life. It's not that severe.
[00:20:54] It's just that I've turned my focus away slightly. From them. So I've turned, turned my back a little [00:21:00] bit and not, not that I've turned my back on them. My focus is now on my family, my life, my center, my center is different and they're not part of it. So like, you know, I am, I am the earth and the moon, some words, um, and
[00:21:15] Dan: [00:21:15] the,
[00:21:18] Keith: [00:21:18] this just helps because, um, I just, I just got to get on with my life.
[00:21:28] They're not interested in doing the work and I don't know if they ever will, but that's okay. I don't need to decide for them. Um, and yeah, I, I've kind of lost my train of thought, but yeah, I just, I that's how it worked. I just needed to, uh, move away from the distortion, recognize that it's a distortion and where they're living in their version of events.
[00:21:56] It doesn't suit me and I need to have my own version of events and [00:22:00] live within that. And they don't need to mix, you know what I mean?
[00:22:03] Noel: [00:22:03] Yeah. It's a very
[00:22:04] Chris: [00:22:04] mature, emotional perspective. You have Keith. Um, and I I've become interested in, in last year and this idea of kind of the emotions or are they, they are transmitted through generations and there's like cycles.
[00:22:19] No. So your grandparents would have affected your parents who effected you, who you affect your children. And I thought it was very interesting that you say that you witnessed your father from other people's eyes out of party. You kind of went are, you know, that's not person I know, or you know, that isn't part of the experience I've had.
[00:22:37] We sometimes can get that jolt of, um, perspective on people. You know, that people are kind of like comedians. What I would say to you is you seem like a very fun dad. Like you, I see you on Instagram, sucking through your house and making funny Tik TOK videos. And, you know, you seem like a, uh, a gas man. And as they would say, Have you made the decision to be like that with your kids or you, [00:23:00] you know, you, you said that you, you know, success for you as a parent would be being as the same as you are on the street or, you know, on the radio or on your play or wherever as you are with your kids.
[00:23:10] Are you succeeding in that? Is it working for you? Are you breaking that cycle?
[00:23:16] Keith: [00:23:16] Yeah, I think, um, I think every now and then someone comes along and the, and the, and the heal, the trauma of several generations, this, this, this, the break, the cycle. Um, and I, and I, and I'm not, and that's not me being braggy about it, but I do think that I am, I am one of those people.
[00:23:34] Um, I'm first of all, my, my first job was to not pass on the trauma. So when my kids were very young before I'd done any of the work, I mean, my, my daughter's nearly would be 19. This year is 18. So when she was born, I made a very conscious decision, which is a weird thing to even have to make a decision about, but like, I was not going to hit me child.
[00:23:58] So that's, that's very [00:24:00] sort of basic decision I made. Yeah. Um, I'm not going to make their life any more difficult than life is already going to be. Uh, I will try. Um, and I think it's only, now that I'm trying to merge fun, happy Keith with I'm trying my S like, uh, uh, Beyonce, which is like, it's still, I still, I have moments with my son and my daughter.
[00:24:30] We're starting to have moments of just the crack. Yeah. But it's almost like I'm trying to join the two different people. Um, from my wife as well, like she would have said like, you're, you're when I was on the radio, she was such a great crack on the radio. Or people have said almost be Greg cracklin.
[00:24:46] McKeith he must be hilarious. She's like, well, no, not really because I wasn't. Um, and this is all the work that I've started to do. And I'm still trying to do is trying to be the person that I, [00:25:00] I want to be for myself and, and be that person all the time to everybody, um, and be cycling through those. And the bike was, everyone was gone to bed, so I could be myself
[00:25:11] Noel: [00:25:11] and that's already happened.
[00:25:12] Keith: [00:25:12] Yeah. But so, yeah, it's very, it's, it's very difficult, but, uh, it's definitely worth the work. And I, and there's definitely moments where I see when I say things, right. I try and I say things in front of my son or to my son where he was like, are you, you know what I can see, uh, It's it's different. I'm, I'm being different towards him.
[00:25:40] Um, I'm being more playful, uh, and he does know where to put that. So dad
[00:25:46] Chris: [00:25:46] talks to him.
[00:25:48] Keith: [00:25:48] Yeah. Or even like, like I've, I would, well, as like, I'm always the dad that will throw on like ice cube, even with the bad words. And I'd be like, just don't tell anyone we're listening to this. [00:26:00] Um,
[00:26:01] Noel: [00:26:01] so
[00:26:03] Keith: [00:26:03] yeah, but, but, but, uh, but trying to be playful, you know, and trying to make it not, uh, not, I don't want it to be for my son.
[00:26:15] I don't want to be all which dad is this who, who are, you know, cause everybody, if I am in a mood, if I'm feeling down, if I'm feeling anxious or feeling stressed, that I explain that to them. Um, and if I'm feeling playful that it's not awkward. Yeah, because we all remember those awkward moments with our dads, where they did a complete three 60 from because they've done something terrible, then they have to make a GSO.
[00:26:44] They want to give you money or they're trying to make jokes and they're trying to hook it. And you're just like, it's the last thing you want. And it's just horrible and awkward because it doesn't as a child. It just doesn't,
[00:26:56] Noel: [00:26:56] it, it just creates that like being on edge because you literally [00:27:00] don't know who it's, it's a kind of, it's a very passive aggressiveness about that.
[00:27:04] That's almost neither are good. Obviously. Like you've got different kinds of behavior styles. You've got passive aggressiveness and aggressiveness, at least with aggressiveness. Right. I know what's common consistently, but we're passive aggressiveness. It's, it's almost kinda like, you know, I'll come on in here for a big argument.
[00:27:22] I'll get my, my side of the argument across. And just before you get yours, I run off or, you know, and then. Someone's written their whole Guinea one day in one moment. And then, then you kind of, you give in to it. Okay. I'll give them a hug and then you gotta, you gotta slap in the face. And it's, it's, it's a really difficult one to, to process for a kid and like for an adult, but nevermind, um, nevermind kids, but, and it was something that you were talking about a moment ago there.
[00:27:51] Um, sorry. Um, about the forgiveness piece and like, I'm sure like, again, there's lots of people listening to this that are kind of wondering [00:28:00] how, how could you forget because forgiveness is a big thing and it's something that I heard. Um, I heard an, a number of years ago because I often wondered about forgiveness.
[00:28:11] And when you have, when you feel angry about something, it's usually there for, we feel wronged or feel hurt in some, in some way. And it's trying to. Kind of let go of that anger and something that I heard, it was really, I think it was a really good way to look at this stuff and to think about it is that I'm not forgiving the person for them.
[00:28:29] I suppose. For some foremost I'm forgiving them for me because if I forgive them and then I forgive the situation, it lets me, I'm not carrying around that anger anymore. And that's why he forced the former. So I forgive them for me enough, enough, not for them, but I forgive them for me. And you're able to kind of, I suppose, move past that and move with that.
[00:28:49] And even, I suppose, for yourself, there, there was expectations and what you would have liked, but unfortunately they want to be on that path. And I no understand totally what you mean there of trying to kind of say, [00:29:00] look. And it's not in a nasty way. I think that's really important for people. It's something that I do see happening, lots where they'll just, people just cut someone out of their lives and be very brutal with, with stuff.
[00:29:10] I, I, I don't see that as healthy. I think it's important that we do make an effort and then if there's nothing coming back. Okay. I think it's good for us then to say, look, this is something that works for me for me. So I think just, just for that self-preservation and the happiness in their own and your own life.
[00:29:27] Keith: [00:29:27] Yeah. Like the struggle really ended for me. And when I realized that this, and I see this a lot with people, and I see this a lot with my own family, I'm the relationship doesn't exist between me and my father and me and my mother thought I want, it's not there. It was never there. I have this idea of a relationship that boys should have with their dads or the boys should have with their mothers.
[00:29:54] I've seen other people. With their parents, with their fathers, with their, you know, I've seen, I've seen good [00:30:00] relationships that's so that, so that relationship, this imagined relationship was what I was trying to put on top of my relationship with my father, which didn't exist. I was never going to have that relationship with them.
[00:30:13] It's never going to be a great relationship. It's always going to be on his terms. And certainly, well, there's always going to be on her terms. And once I realized, once I was upset, I said, what's that like, you still have to mourn and grieve for that relationship that you you'd hoped would happen someday, or are you, you pretended to yourself was there, it was never there.
[00:30:35] It's never going to be there. This we're never gonna, we're always gonna have that type of conversation that sort of stilted, awkward conversation. We're always going to have it's it's never going to change. So, so once you kind of realized that, and once we realized, well, this is the relationship with my dad, uh, he is my father.
[00:30:53] We're we're not close and that's okay. And we don't get on very well and that's okay. And, you know, I can't get on well with [00:31:00] everybody and, you know, that's just, you know, once you face the facts and you can grieve and mourn for that. And, and what's your grieve in the morning for us is, is a relationship that you've taught you should have, you know, or it's like, it's like feeling like you should have a bigger house or, you know, your job should be better.
[00:31:15] Or, you know, any of those things, once you realize that once you face up to the truth, um, and also then it's, I, it's better for my parents as well. It's fair on them. Cause I don't keep, I'm not going to keep ringing up and almost like almost like a ringing up and I have an angry conversations with them about because ultimately it's me being frustrated that we don't, that we're a lot closer, that things aren't better, that this isn't, it isn't different, that it isn't different and that's the frustration.
[00:31:45] So, so that's gone. So I don't need to check in with them to see if we have suddenly have a great relationship overnight. Um, Having said that if my dad rings and I, I have a hospital appointment on Friday, can you drive me? I'll drive. And I'm okay. Sitting in the [00:32:00] car with them because I know what our relationship is and I'm not sitting there going, geez, I wish I wish this conversation was more free flowing and more enjoyable than I wish.
[00:32:09] I wish I wish this. I wish that it's just, it's just, it's, it's just awkward and that's it. So I feel a lot better, you know?
[00:32:18] Noel: [00:32:18] Yeah. And that's it, if it gets to being able to sit in, like everything's not always rosy and that everything's not going to always be rosy. I think it's getting to the position where you're saying, look, that can be a bit awkward, but I'm comfortable with that awkwardness or uncomfortable with the way those kind of things are, um, something you mentioned earlier, um, about kind of pleasing people and, and doing things like that to kind of, um, yeah, I suppose pleased people.
[00:32:40] Exactly. I'll say sad. Um, and I just want to, I suppose, come through, come forward just a bit more and. Obviously, you mentioned you went to, you went to conduct in college. And so there was, there was there's creativity there and other stuff that I've seen that you're you're recently, recently, I think ventured into the card [00:33:00] making and stuff like that.
[00:33:00] But just to come back then, when you, you started in radio, you were, you were around, um, spend one on three and you were in, uh, it was I radio and Phantom down as well. And then you landed this, the big gig, the breakfast show and the national broadcaster. And what was that kind of transitioned? Did a feel like a natural progression to get there?
[00:33:26] Or did you get there too soon? Do you think? You know, when I, when I say what I mean, when I say that the kind of did it take you by surprise or what was, what was that whole kind of period Lake and the jump to there then? Not that it's not that it just happened over night. You obviously worked your ass off over a number of years to get there.
[00:33:44] Keith: [00:33:44] Yeah. Like it wasn't, it was never going to be the right time for me, because I just didn't, you know, I, I always, if, if things like that happened to me or I got a job, it was always because, um, they tried to get somebody else and then they dropped out at the last minute and they [00:34:00] got me instead, you know, so there's always reasons why I got the job.
[00:34:02] It was never just like, okay, let's here's here's I got this job on merit. Let's just enjoy it. Um, I've always, always working hard to prove myself, but the people please and peace about it. Like that's, I mean, that was my thing. Uh, I was passing, you know, up until very recently I was very passive. I was a people pleaser.
[00:34:21] I mean, look, I could, I could get angry and stand my ground and stand up to bullies and all that kind of stuff. But generally, um, I was a people pleaser. So, so with that job, it was all of, all of the, all of the work of that job or what I did or. How it was going, like people would ask me, people would ask me questions.
[00:34:44] Oh, how's the job going? And I just genuinely would not know because everything was will. How, how do you think it's gone? How does he think it's going? How do you think I'm doing? How does the boss think I'm doing? How does, how did the listeners think I'm doing? [00:35:00] It was never about how I felt I was doing in the job.
[00:35:02] I was always just waiting for confirmation and affirmation from other people from elsewhere. And that kind of affirmation and confirmation and encouragement is fleeting because you don't believe them anyway. Yeah. So, so it's it, you know, it's this weird place where you're like, you've got a job that you should be very happy to have and on the face of it, you're, you're enjoying us, but it's taken, you taken all your energy to enjoy it because
[00:35:35] I don't even, but so, but then it's, but it's all. About how everybody else feels about it. And that's where you're trying to feed off. That's where you're trying to get the energy from, you know, how does everybody else feel about, and it's not coming from within. Does that sort of, I don't even know if that,
[00:35:51] Chris: [00:35:51] no, it makes a lot of sense.
[00:35:53] My understanding, I have no experience of Radiohead, but my understanding of economics radio is essentially that it's based on affirmation. [00:36:00] So like you guys get a job and you're, you know, lead on cover show with Jen and Bernard and you, your job is kind of predicated on numbers. Um, you know, how much, like in podcasting too, it's kind of, you know, advertising is based on how many listeners you can get and this kind of stuff.
[00:36:17] So if you have difficulty with, um, you know, how you see yourself or where your local evaluation is, I would imagine it's. Turbulent, you know? Um, and from my understanding of, of your history with DFM is you, you did deal with anxiety as you were there. Do you think that was because you were constantly trying to, um, seek affirmation from others and then your whole job was based on the private election or are the, um, the idea that this many people need to be listening to you and you need to increase those numbers over time?
[00:36:51] Keith: [00:36:51] Yeah. I mean, that's what it is. Every, every, every quarter you get your numbers and they're up or down. Um, yeah, we, we kind of had a roller coaster with two FM [00:37:00] because initially we took over from Hector and you know, you probably couldn't have gotten more, eh, Different offer. So one day everyone was listening to Hector and next thing there's three people.
[00:37:13] People who've never been on the radio together, uh, trying to find the feet, trying to put a show together. The technology and Archie was such that I didn't like I was trying to work a desk that was like trying to drive a tractor where you'd been used to maybe flying an airplane. And, uh, so there was all this stuff going on.
[00:37:32] We were myself and burns together. I'd never worked with Jen. We were trying to find our feet, trying to find what it was. It was a bit of a mess. Eh, what we grew from that mess was something genuine unique. So we were allowed, you know, fairness to our boss down. We were allowed to that time to really fuck it up.
[00:37:49] But like the, but straight away the numbers like kilometers, you know, I think we have the audience in the first six months, which was like, Oh Jesus. You know, so we [00:38:00] went in, we were just like, so starting a new show. It wasn't working. We have the numbers. What the fuck? You know, this is, you know, and. That was just kind of almost like blind panic for about six months to a year until, until the three of us clicked.
[00:38:17] You know, I was more fluid with the desk. We found out what kind of humor we wanted. We found out what people liked and from us. So, you know, we, we, we started, like, we got to know each other and we got to know the audience and then, and then the audience started growing. So it was a very terrible first year.
[00:38:36] And then, I mean, we're only there for five years. And then you kind of like th th the nature of the business, you got a contract for two years, then you might get a contract for a year. Then you might be offered a contract for, I think we got three years at one point, that was our longest contract. My last contract then was a year.
[00:38:50] And then I think it was extended for a year and six months. So you're always on your toes and you never, like, I just got a job recently and like, I know you can be [00:39:00] sacked. But it was like, it's a job. And they're like, I was like, it's like a job for life if I want. And if I do well, it's, you know, if everything's going, you know, relatively okay.
[00:39:10] And you're, you're making a fist of the job. You could probably work there for 20 years, you know, whereas this is like, when you've got, you know, you've got a two year contract and two, your contract seems fine, but as soon as you're six months into it or a year into it, you have to start talking about your next contract.
[00:39:28] And are you going to get one? And then you're looking at the numbers. Um, we were very close to, like, I know people who went on under the breakfast show to a famine and were taken off after six weeks. So I mean, that, that could have been a huge sort of like you could imagine taking over from Hector and all the people who loved Hector saying, well, this is all the chefs.
[00:39:47] And then we were taken off after six months, you know, you might never have worked in the industry again, you know, so there's all this stuff going on. Um, and it's very public. And also me as a person, I was [00:40:00] obviously suffering my own, those traumas I hadn't dealt with from my childhood that I needed to that I just hadn't.
[00:40:05] I certainly didn't have the space there because you know, I'm the dad, I'm the man of the house. I, this income has been used to pay the mortgage. I need to keep this fucking thing gone. So then everything becomes about the job. What time I go to bed at the house has to be quiet. Uh, Sundays are probably a load of shit for everybody.
[00:40:25] Cause all I can think of is going to work the next day. Probably not a very enjoyable person to be around drinking
[00:40:30] Noel: [00:40:30] more than vicious cycle of just trying to get ahead. Always constantly trying to get ahead when I get there when I get there. Yeah. Yeah. And then drinking
[00:40:38] Keith: [00:40:38] more than they should be at the weekend because I fucking need a break and it was just this constant constant constant cycle and it just ended up then on air.
[00:40:45] I had a panic attack and then, you know, when, when it all finished, I was like, well, now I need to go to therapy. And that's where the whole. The rest of the story starts, you know, I
[00:40:56] Chris: [00:40:56] think this is a funny that this I'm sorry, it's not funny. It's actually quite sad, but [00:41:00] it plays out a lot with, uh, men in particular where this is like how we seem to manifest our masculinity, our, our like masculine role as a parent.
[00:41:10] I'm not a parent yet, but I can only call it from the people that I know their safety, obviously in, in a job, there is it there's status that comes with a job. And you had a job that brought you a lot of status, I would say. Um, and that, you know, probably puts you into the mode of protection mode. This is how I am going to be the, you know, parent, that's how I'm going to be a man.
[00:41:37] You know, it's how I'm going to express my masculinity. I'm going to fucking work damn hard. And I'm going to make sure that, you know, I get those extensions that are contracts, and I can only imagine it's like a very precarious existence that. You're being judged and you're judging yourself and you've got a contract and you know, you're also going home, you know, trying to portray yourself as the person who's got it all together, et cetera, because it must be [00:42:00] very hard.
[00:42:01] Um, do you think that, um, it affected your expression, all of your masculinity, you know, people probably listening. You're probably pissed off at this point. I keep talking about masculinity, but it's something I'm very, very interested in is how we express ourselves as men. And I always see the patterns I see is that we express ourselves very deeply in our work.
[00:42:21] So you do think it manifested there for you as well?
[00:42:26] Keith: [00:42:26] Totally because you know, you, you can excuse yourself. A lot of things. Uh, I used to think that when I grew up, I'd like to be, uh, wealthy and. Uh, do a job that made a lot of money. So I wouldn't have to cut me on grass. Cause that just seemed like the biggest, biggest, so it wouldn't.
[00:42:47] So I could tell them, I have at least enough money to call them on, in to put up some shelves. I wouldn't have to do that myself cause I'm terrible at that kind of thing. Anyway, so that was my, my, my, uh, vision of happiness, [00:43:00] but not having a job like that excuses you from a lot of things. So you can set your children.
[00:43:04] Look, we have enough money for you to go on holidays this year. So what are you fucking complaining about? Uh, you've nothing to complain to me. You got a roof over your head. That's not what like children want connection. They want time. They want, they want presence. They want, they don't want care. I mean, obviously they do care, but you know, that's, that's that's surface stuff, but yeah, for me as a man, I was that I was able to S you know, I was, it was almost like.
[00:43:29] I could excuse myself from certain things with regard to my wife, because you know, she's married to a guy who's on the radio. He's, you know, he get the money's okay. Like we have a nice enough house. Everything's, you know, like it's, if when you know everything's not right and you're not behaving as well as he could, you, all these things come into play as excuses and reasons why it's okay, that you behave in the way of a heaven, you know,
[00:43:52] Chris: [00:43:52] it makes it worse as well that other people are telling you it's the right thing to do.
[00:43:56] Other people will be looking at you going, he's fucking nailing it. You know, he's doing [00:44:00] so well and, you know, whatever, and you know, in your heart that you're missing that connection with the people that are closest to you. And you are using these things as an excuse, and you are pushing them away because you think this is the way to protect, and you are going back to your old conditioning and you know, it is this kind of horrible cycle.
[00:44:16] I think that happens to us that we can't have, I was just talking to the laws this morning about social media. I didn't have social media for 10 years. I had Facebook in college and I got rid of it because I found that it was affecting. How I saw myself I'm into fitness and, you know, I was essentially following the fittest people in the world and the most beautiful women in the world.
[00:44:40] Therefore, my comparing contrast mechanisms where I'm not as jacked as that dude on Facebook, or if I'm not dating, you know, that girl or that, you know, the way that girl looks, then I'm a failure. So I was like, fuck it. You know, I realized that young and I said, I'm getting off and now I've come back on because of this.
[00:44:57] And I, you know, I think I [00:45:00] can admit now I'm a hundred percent addicted to it already. Like the idea of getting likes, like the mechanism of putting something out and people giving you information immediately has hooked me and took me to the point now where I am saying to the last I have to get off it.
[00:45:17] Eating is bad for me. And I know that people grow up in this and it it's, you know, people are climatized to, and it's part of life now is that we have this instant, uh, you know, kind of microwave affirmation, you know, you stick something on and all of a sudden you get a hundred likes or whatever. But I know from me not having not had it for a long time, it's fucking bad for me.
[00:45:39] You know, I, I, 100% don't want to go back to it.
[00:45:42] Keith: [00:45:42] Here's a challenge for you. Try and stay on social media, but design your pages in a way that bring you joy. So like if sometimes when you meet up with somebody and they're, they're fucking the most annoying person in the world, and they're driving you mad, that might be somebody that could be a very good [00:46:00] friend of yours, but we do this thing where we'd like to stay in our, in our, within our comfort zones.
[00:46:08] So we follow the people. We follow the people that we think we like, or we follow people who are very similar to us and it reflects something that we don't enjoy seeing there's something in it, but you can design your social media, you can enjoy design your tick talk. You can design your, your Twitter to F to reflect, to, to be nice, to, to be something that you, you it's like, it's kind of like life.
[00:46:28] You can just, you can sort of put a bit of effort into designing is in a way that look, I'm not saying it's easier. It's always going to be, I mean, I mean, I think that fishing for likes thing, you know, that's something that's a separate thing almost, you know, that's when you're putting stuff up that, that you find interesting.
[00:46:47] And if people don't come back and go, yeah. I also, like, I also like those kinds of clouds in that picture that you put up, uh, I th I think it's about, I think it's about drilling down into things that you [00:47:00] actually like and sharing those things, but without expectation of just being like, do you know what I really liked this fucking cardigan.
[00:47:07] Love share itself, but I'm sharing this because this is me. This is not sometimes when we share things, we're like, Oh, this is something that I've obviously, because I'm a people pleaser, I've done a lot of work on. Yeah. We were like, Oh, I think people would like this. I'm going to share it. Whereas instead of you might think, you know, I really like this.
[00:47:28] I'm going to share it. And when you make that change, it changes your relationship with social media. It changes your relationship with the people that you follow. It changes the relationship and it, and you can do that sort of with life as well. You can be like, I'm a bit more, a bit less worried about what people think of me and IRL in real life, you know, or on social media.
[00:47:49] And it allows me just to be playful or do stupid things or not be afraid to make a fool of myself or, and that makes life a lot more playful and more enjoyable. [00:48:00] So we, sometimes we construct ourselves, but. You know, I would totally say it's your, if you need to come off social media to that too, you
[00:48:08] Dan: [00:48:08] know, talking about it just literally just before the show, um, because you know, Chris is saying no, like he said, I'm, uh, I'm getting fed up with it or whatever.
[00:48:16] And I think when people get social media, especially for the first time they follow everything and their Twitter, if they're following hundreds or thousands of you on Twitter and they're following testimonial on Instagram, or they go out in the night out and they meet a couple of lads, the next thing is, they're all following each other on Instagram and he's never talk again.
[00:48:31] And it's, you know, you get this kind of, when you scroll to your timeline after having social media for so long, you have this, like, eventually you end up with this sensory overload. Like if you look at my Instagram, like I have so many random hobbies that you're scrolling through it and you're getting skateboarding and martial arts, in fact, can, you know, miniature model painting and guitarra stuff.
[00:48:52] And then people I haven't seen in six years. And so I think, you know, after a while, the best thing you can do is just start to kind of. [00:49:00] Corral your social media. And I said this to Chris, uh, as well as just, you know, go through your, the pages. And I do it like every few months I do it, anything that I don't feel I'm gaining any value from or people that I don't really speak to or necessarily, or things that I actually don't really like to see.
[00:49:16] I just remove it. And it makes sense when you can kind of, you know, like what's the word, uh, sort the content like that. It makes it far more, a much more enjoyable experience, you know, because you're kind of only seeing the things that you want to see, and you're not seeing this stuff that's stressing you out or like, Oh God, I wish I was in Dubai with that person.
[00:49:36] Or, you know, like just this nice pleasant place. Now that for me is mainly full of dogs, but, you know,
[00:49:44] Chris: [00:49:44] and cat memes, well, I think like down they're categorized, uh, and I, I have thought about that. Non-attachment idea of kind of. Doing it for the sake of doing it. But the one thing that I'm aware of is that we're all competing with some of the [00:50:00] smartest minds in the world, working for the likes of Facebook, Instagram tick-tock, et cetera, who are developing algorithms to play on your emotions and your emotion, feedback mechanisms.
[00:50:11] And, you know, I read once in a book that, which I thought was very sad. The algorithm essentially monitor how often you interact with the, the platform. So for, uh, for Instagram and you know, this might be apocryphal or it might be untrue, but this is what I read, that they, if you post something on Instagram, they may hold back the number of likes.
[00:50:33] So if you're not interacting with it enough, cause they can see how often you go in to check how many likes you're getting. And they want you to be interacting with the program. More like, you know, Instagram and we're not competing with each other anymore. They're competing with anything that is vying for your attention.
[00:50:48] So Netflix, everything, you know, anything that you can of attention too, even in, you know, IRL, like you say, Keith, they're competing with that. So they want to keep you on the phone. So they will hold back, likes to make you [00:51:00] feel like people aren't liking your stuff and then they will release them. Uh, sometimes in trips are in batches.
[00:51:06] So you continuously go back and go, Oh, there's a dopamine hit. Oh, there's a dopamine hit. Oh, there's the, the dopamine hit. Um, and that, that to me, I know I'm not psychologically capable of, to compete with these intelligent behavioral scientists and behavioral economic economists who are coming up with ways for more people to come on to their platform all of the time, you know, all like when you look at earnings reports from these public companies, They look at growth every quarter.
[00:51:33] And if you're not growing their stock price goes down. Therefore we are competing with their incentives to keep us on the platform. And I just don't think that I have the requisite skillsets to do that. You know, I could probably practice non-attachment. Um, but when you're trying to grow something like we're trying to grow the podcast and the platform we're trying to help people.
[00:51:50] And it's about helping people. It's about helping as many people as possible. You know, it's about getting to as many people on the platform to see if we can break through certain barriers for young [00:52:00] people, et cetera. And that means, unfortunately, you have to do what people like, and you have to figure out what people like, which creates this sense of frustration.
[00:52:06] You're kind of all the time thinking, Jesus, you know what people thought of these people? Like, whereas in my own life I had no social media. I didn't know what the fuck was going on at the time. And I did whatever I felt like doing and, you know, unencumbered. I did it because I wanted to do it. And if people liked it, they liked it.
[00:52:21] If it didn't, they didn't. And I feel like that's something I would prefer to have. I would prefer to live like that. But I'd like to, I like to ask you in terms of. Your view on it and how you interact with social media. What are you telling your kids? W what do you, how do you want them to interact? Cause it's going to be whether I like it or not, I'm the Luddite here.
[00:52:39] Okay. Whether I like it or not, they're going to be living their lives with this super computer attached to their hand. And I hope, you know, who knows what's going to be like in 10 years, you know, holographic images and fucking what's the next big tick tock who knows, but what do you say to them about their use and their overused, or, you know, uh, how do you, um, [00:53:00] school them on it?
[00:53:02] Keith: [00:53:02] Well, first of all, just go back to what you were saying about how you're, how we're being treated as consumers of social media. If you buy a book that you like and you really enjoy it, and then you go back to buy another book that to try and find a similar book. And if a book is successful, say for instance, and it sells lots.
[00:53:25] The publisher will bring out books that look similar to that book. The covers will be similar. Yeah. Confirmation rising on the front will be similar. And that will be, you know, they're trying to draw in the people that bought the millions of books from the best seller. And, you know, say for instance, when Alex gardens the beach Kemo, that was huge.
[00:53:42] And then after that you had all these books that were the kind of look like the beach crackers that were sort of like similar sandwich chain spotting the same. Yeah. So, so, but you you're discernible. So you'd pick up that book and go, well, this isn't fucking the same. Uh, so I'm not going to buy that book, you know, I'll have to [00:54:00] do you don't mean like you are intelligence you're you are more into like the reason that they have put all this money into the science behind what's happening is because you are very intelligent and you'll know if something, isn't what it says on the tin.
[00:54:12] It's like, if, if you like craft beers and then, you know, a brewery brings out, you know, Rock shore lager. You're like, w you might have a plankton and go, well, this isn't what type of thing. I, I don't care what they're calling it. I don't care what it's masquerading as that's not what it is. You are very intelligent.
[00:54:27] That's the thing you should bear in mind. And that's what I think about what my kids they're very intelligent. The thing about social media is would you allow your child into Dublin for the day, for the first time, what was telling them something about how to get a bus, giving them change, to get the bus, uh, showing them on a map where to go, how you know, where the local guard station is?
[00:54:50] You know, somewhere you can meet, uh, you need to talk your kids through social media. So what are the watch outs? What's to walk? What, where might be a [00:55:00] problem, you know, where are the, where's the dark places that you don't go queer? You know, what happens if you know, porn pops up? Who, you know, it's, it's kind of like, I would, I would like, my son is 12, but.
[00:55:15] You know, in the last few years we've been allowing him to go a bit further and further and further away from the house. So it's like he can go to the skate park on his own with his friends. He, then he can get the bus over to NACE, to the skate park over there. Then, you know, at some points when my daughter was 14, 15, she was allowed to get the train into Dublin.
[00:55:32] And then it's like bit by bit, but at all, but you're constantly explaining things to them and how to get the bus. And what happens if a man comes up and shows you his Willy and what do you do then? And what, you know, it's like, it's how this is it. It's there. As you said, like it's there for life, you know, you can't, I won't get into it and you don't talk about it and you don't explain how to deal with it's something.
[00:55:56] If my, if you know, porn showed up at my son's [00:56:00] laptop and he didn't know that he could come and tell me that it happened, or you know, how he felt about it or whatever, you know, I don't, he asked him, you know, that would be worse for you, you know? And, and the thing about life is there's always going to be traumas.
[00:56:12] Life is a struggle. Shit happens. The PR there's only ever a problem. If you can't turn to somebody and talk to them about it, honestly, and they don't listen to you with an open mind, it's like when your son comes and said, look, I've got an issue here. I'm smoking a lot of hash. You can get really fucking freaked out and drag it down to the guard station and get angry with them and have them arrested.
[00:56:35] Or you can try and dive down into like, why I wonder why he's smoking a lot of hash and wonder and like have that honest conversation with them. Uh, so would any of these things it's about explaining it's about listening. It's about having an open mind.
[00:56:49] Noel: [00:56:49] I think that the education thing around anything, that's one of the main parts of the way I work is that it was always say to my every single client that I've ever done, I'll ever have her hat on ever will [00:57:00] have the sooner.
[00:57:00] I don't see you with the better as in. I'm going to try and give you all the tools possible and all the educational stuff around. So you're able to understand this, obviously, if you, if you want to see me or allowed see me, um, but I think that's massively important. And, and by understanding even that Chris, and yes, really smart people, I think we can equip ourselves better and kind of ask, so what are they doing?
[00:57:21] They're doing this to get that in the brain. Oh, okay. So I understand the way the brain works. And then I understand as, as Keith saying that the kind of we're able to understand the different things that can kind of come up on social media and on the interweb and all that kind of stuff. I think that's like education again is massively important, but then also, you know, we can say auto I'm here for you, but we gotta, we gotta show to our actions that I am actually here for you and present and emotionally present, not just physically present, um, when you finished up Keith, sorry.
[00:57:52] In, um, and to FM, um, and the, the, the statements you released [00:58:00] were, um, Said some things said some things I don't know, because I can't remember exactly what it said, but the thing that really stood out for me was I think what I thought I think was the last line, but it said I trust the next chapter because I know the author and forced off was to like, did you really believe that at the time?
[00:58:20] Um, what's that been like for you since being the author and figuring your shit out between then and now, and it's not, you haven't figured it all out. I don't think anyone has, you're still figuring it out as you've said, but what was it like, kind of saying that I trust the author.
[00:58:39] Keith: [00:58:39] Yeah. I mean, obviously it was, it was a quote.
[00:58:41] I saw it that I, I think was my, my wife has said it to me. Um, and I liked it and you know, the small dementia bravado as well, I suppose with that. And, uh, but at the same time, I think I was pretty confident. I had no idea. You know, P people say, Oh, you [00:59:00] know, jumping the university catchy, you know, and, and these are the things you tell yourself and you hope that it's true.
[00:59:05] But I knew that I was going the right direction. I mean, any of the things I've talked to you about now about things, whatever we've spoken about in the last hour or so this is all kind of like new findings to me, new. This is all a lot of it. Isn't new to me. Um, but I knew I was going the right direction.
[00:59:24] I knew the work I was doing wouldn't would lead me Australia. I knew it was the right decision. Leave a two FM because an OT, because I was in, I had been in there, you described it almost like I was panhandling in the corridors of RD, looking for a gig, you know, because there was a, there was a time where I thought this is fucking it.
[00:59:43] This is if I don't get it, another job within our team, I'm fucked. You know, what do I I'm I'm on the scrap people I'm done. And it was only through working with my therapist and. Stuff like meditation and you know, all these things that I re that I started actually figuring out that my next [01:00:00] chapter in life and my fulfillments are actually going to come.
[01:00:03] It's like me talking about not knowing how I was doing and work, but, but now I knew how, what I wanted and how I could, I had a fair idea of how I could get to whatever it is I wanted to do. I was trusting the universe a little bit, but also trust in myself. Um, so I, yeah, I, I, so I went from knocking on every door and RT asking for a job to realizing that it's, it was, it was it's strange.
[01:00:36] Like I was, I was asked to do weekends and on to a family. On one hand, you should be grateful. You know, if you work in radio and someone wants you to do like four hours of music at the weekends, you know, that's, that's great. Isn't it? It's a great, you know, and people would say that I had an agent to us that will leave.
[01:00:55] You know, you've got that. You've got like, someone described it to me once it's like, um, [01:01:00] uh, something like, I think they use the word property or something like you've got a bit of property within use that, you know, use that. And I was just like, I just feel so fucking dead inside coming in here and playing Dua Lipa and saying that was Julie
[01:01:17] Noel: [01:01:17] up here.
[01:01:18] Here's the new thing. It can be great. But clearly if it's not, if that's where you're on the journey that you were, you brought yourself and got yourself on. You said, no, no, I'm not going to just say yeah, yes, it can be great for someone else. This isn't great for me.
[01:01:33] Keith: [01:01:33] I, I, and this is it. This is not an ego thing.
[01:01:37] I valued myself more than I knew that. I knew why I was given the gay. Like, I, I just find myself more. This is not what I want to be doing. I don't feel like I, I, I'm not going to be grateful for somebody giving me this gig. Uh, I want to do something else. I want to be excited. I'm not like I was doing it.
[01:01:58] And also someone else could come [01:02:00] in and really enjoy that. So why would I come in and do two hours on a Saturday and fucking haters when someone has come in and actually love it and be more Bennett and be of benefit to RTE and be benefit to themselves. And, you know, I was just like, so I had to make that decision of going, no, you know what?
[01:02:14] I don't know what the fuck I'm going to do next. I don't know how I'm going to pay the bills, but, um, I'm out here and,
[01:02:20] Chris: [01:02:20] uh, stop listening to a phone when you left. So honestly, I was sore. I didn't know what was going on. Like, you know, you were leaving and I was like, what the fuck is going on? Why would they choose to
[01:02:33] Keith: [01:02:33] there's nothing. Uh, for me as a presenter, I was always interested in doing breakfast shows and comedy stuff. And. Coming up with clever ruses and, you know, stones, or even just talking to interesting people. I had never had an interest in being the jock and presenting two hours of music. That to me just doesn't and if I was to do it, I'd have to be playing.
[01:02:56] And I, I just didn't, I just didn't get any joy [01:03:00] from it, you know? And you know, that was ultimately, that was it.
[01:03:03] Noel: [01:03:03] The thing you said there really, and I absolutely loved it when you said it w like evaluate yourself. Cause we can, we can talk about it all we want, but if you treat yourself like shares, well, then that's the put the value you put on yourself and that's, that's an that's that's.
[01:03:17] That was brilliant to hear you say that. And I'm loving for you, um, to get to that stage in your life where it's like, no, I'm going to value myself through my actions. I'm going to show myself, this is what I am showing myself. I mean, to myself and that's that's serious stuff. Um, are you, are you proud?
[01:03:37] Cause we've talked as mentioned the word traumas and we'll all have traumas, um, to varying degrees to varying amounts and that, but I think the key thing with that is, and, and something that you've done is you've said, look, I've had this, that that's happened to me. You know, I know you mentioned before that I had a violent childhood and Def you know, to sort of different things that went on and went on and [01:04:00] through your life, um, I, as with everyone's life, but it, I think it's taken ownership of it.
[01:04:08] It's taken control and power back and say, you know what, I, ain't going to do something with this. And look what you look at. I'd say to people like, look what you can do because Keith has, is doing this. Um, I'm not that you're sitting back kind of patting yourself on the back, but have you, have you processed a bit of, kind of, are you able to be proud of yourself to say instead of those traumas carrying them around, like kind of just rocks on my back and a bike.
[01:04:34] I took the backpack off me back, put them down and had a look. And I actually, maybe I built something fucking awesome.
[01:04:41] Keith: [01:04:41] Yeah, definitely. Uh, I am proud and I, when the breakfast show finished up, I remember one of the thoughts I had, and this was all tied up and going to therapy and all that. So I want to turn this fucking terrible moment into an opportunity somehow.
[01:04:56] I don't know how, I don't know what, but there's something I'm going to [01:05:00] learn something from this and there's going to be learnings in this. I don't know because I was, I was all over the place at the time, but somewhere in the back of my head is fucking learn something from this and then tell everybody else what you learned from it.
[01:05:15] I didn't know how that was going to happen. I didn't know, but I just remember thinking this is a fucking, this is seismic event in your life, you know, you know, other men. Men can hit that midlife crisis. When, you know, they lose something that they love, like a job or whatever, you know, something that defines them and it can just, it can really, it can take them down.
[01:05:37] Um, I was determined that it wouldn't take me down. Um, and uh, also wanted to then be able to explain to people what I did to avoid it, taking me down and then try and get that out there somehow and try and help other people, you know, ultimately, and that's you, you have,
[01:06:00] [01:06:00] Dan: [01:06:00] uh,
[01:06:02] Keith: [01:06:02] you know, be a heal yourself, get, get better and then help other people.
[01:06:06] That's that's my that's, that's my thinking all the time as I can, uh, get, talk about it, be honest with people be vulnerable and that in itself will help other people.
[01:06:22] Noel: [01:06:22] Absolutely. You were the guests I needed. I needed to have a chat with today. That's for sure. Keith, um, the, before we go onto the, the quickfire round, it just one question.
[01:06:32] This might seem a bit weird, but when I kept, when I was researching for the last week, him, I liked having Keith Walton got a old Google would be there and it kept coming off. Keith Welch or IP a so forth. That's you a rest? It's the, it's the, it's the funeral kind of notes for people because it kept coming up.
[01:06:50] It's like, you know what? Fuck it let's use this. And it was a
[01:06:58] What would you like your obituary to [01:07:00] read or to be emotionally
[01:07:05] Keith: [01:07:05] a few years? I don't know. I don't know. Jesus. Uh, I, I don't think I can answer that question. Um, yeah, that's all right. He wasn't, he wasn't a bad lad. He was a good, a good father and husband.
[01:07:23] Noel: [01:07:23] There you go.
[01:07:25] Dan: [01:07:25] It would say here lies big Dan Kell, Slayer of legends, right? Just to give you something, just
[01:07:34] Chris: [01:07:34] to
[01:07:34] Noel: [01:07:34] give you something.
[01:07:35] And on that note, let's move on to the quick fire round. Um, Keith, these are like, we've just got, we've got 10 questions, kind of, kind of keep saying that the fairly quick fire round. Cause it's never really quick, but as quick as he can and you will see how we go. Um, are you ready?
[01:07:51] Keith: [01:07:51] Go. I'll beat around
[01:07:54] Dan: [01:07:54] the Bush
[01:07:58] Keith: [01:07:58] 10 questions. Come on five seconds [01:08:00] on the clock. We already know y'all need quick fire questions. Come on under the pick up the bays.
[01:08:09] Noel: [01:08:09] First off. What's your favorite soup?
[01:08:11] Keith: [01:08:11] Um, pepper and tomato.
[01:08:15] Noel: [01:08:15] Interesting. What album helps you? Just chill.
[01:08:20] Keith: [01:08:20] Um, I'm going to say the stone rolls is the stone roses.
[01:08:23] Dan: [01:08:23] Cool
[01:08:25] Noel: [01:08:25] socks or no socks with shoes.
[01:08:28] Keith: [01:08:28] Uh, I went through a period of no socks, but definitely socks. Even if they're just a small, tiny ones that cover your toes and heels
[01:08:37] Noel: [01:08:37] that's yeah, you've gone back over my estimations. I saw those posts with no name, something weird or absurd that you love
[01:08:47] Dan: [01:08:47] soup
[01:08:50] Noel: [01:08:50] names, something you couldn't live without where this one's going to
[01:08:56] Dan: [01:08:56] soup.
[01:08:58] Noel: [01:08:58] If you were there. [01:09:00] Okay. I'm going to see a trend here. If you are the last person on air, what would you still do apart from making soup,
[01:09:08] Keith: [01:09:08] personal and art? What would I do? I think, I think I, I think I'd meditate and all that sounds really weird, but I think that would help me figure out what the fuck I was going to do.
[01:09:15] I think it would, I think I'd be panicked otherwise.
[01:09:19] Noel: [01:09:19] Cool. Sounds good if you go abroad. No, go now. Yeah.
[01:09:26] Yeah. Well, there you go. It's important. And
[01:09:29] Dan: [01:09:29] finally, someone's honest. Yeah, you can see at one point when you asked this question all the time, no one
[01:09:37] Noel: [01:09:37] knows what form of meditation it brings. Focus onto what you're presently doing. Mindfulness. Yep. There you go. Here we go. If you could broadcast the message to everyone on earth, what would it be?
[01:09:54] Keith: [01:09:54] Oh, uh, go to therapy now. Cool. Unless you're okay.
[01:10:01] [01:10:00] Noel: [01:10:01] What advice should young people ignore?
[01:10:07] Keith: [01:10:07] Um, God, what advice? Young people know, um,
[01:10:17] I think that it's not a one-liner, it's more like that fucking college has to be all Lendl and school has to be on Nando and points in college and all that kind of crop has to be all and end all there's so much more to life. And that's probably, you know, if you look at an iceberg, the college college is important because it's a great place to have fun, enjoy experience, meeting new people, but that whole drive to get points and go to a good college.
[01:10:44] It will mean nothing to you. A couple of years afterwards, you know,
[01:10:47] Noel: [01:10:47] perfectly tying for now. A lot of people go into all that kind of showed now at the moment over the next couple of months, unfortunately, um, if you feel overwhelmed, what do you instinctively do?
[01:11:00] [01:11:00] Dan: [01:11:00] Um,
[01:11:01] Keith: [01:11:01] breathe and assure myself that I'd be able to, uh, everything will Reese I'll get a good night's sleep and everything will reset everything in the morning. Hmm,
[01:11:13] Noel: [01:11:13] good. Finish this sentence at the end of the day.
[01:11:17] Keith: [01:11:17] Call me
[01:11:17] Noel: [01:11:17] therapist. Yeah. Okay. Finish this sentence at the end of the day, it all comes down to
[01:11:25] Keith: [01:11:25] people and love not says
[01:11:30] Noel: [01:11:30] K-12.
[01:11:31] Thank you so so much. And like I say, I really mean that it was the perfect guest for me for, for, for today. And, and I think this will absolutely help a lot of people and you will help a lot of people before staff, the way you can help other people, like, as you've said is because you're gonna start helping yourself for us.
[01:11:45] And you've done that, which is amazing. Um, where I, I noticed recently you were doing stuff with caring with Kate, and obviously we've got, you've got the K-12 podcast. Tell [01:12:00] us the stuff that's out there, where people can see or listen to you and the things they can do with you.
[01:12:05] Keith: [01:12:05] Yeah, just the podcast. Keep, watch podcasts.
[01:12:07] That's that's the most important thing. Um, people give that a listen and recommend us and tell your friends. And it's just a bit of fun that doesn't yeah. We put little to no thought into it, but I've had some groups, some great guests on. Um, and, uh, yeah, it's just, it's a fun podcast. So hopefully people will still enjoy it.
[01:12:27] Chris: [01:12:27] When is, um, pure mental?
[01:12:29] Keith: [01:12:29] Yes. Okay. There is that as well. So we'd be touring November and December, uh, around Ireland. Uh, so watch out for tickets and, uh, venue announcements, which probably won't happen until everything kind of fully opens and we know exactly where we are with theaters. So November, December watch out for pure mental, somewhere in a theater near you, hopefully.
[01:12:50] Noel: [01:12:50] I'll be here. K-12 I would make it work whenever you're doing the Australian tour. I'll absolutely Keith. I really [01:13:00] mean that. Thank you very much. It was absolutely brilliant having you on and, uh, yeah, just thank you so much. Thanks
[01:13:06] Keith: [01:13:06] guys, podcast. Good luck. Thank
[01:13:08] Dan: [01:13:08] you.
[01:13:14] Got another episode of the one DMC podcast done and dusted. Huge. Thanks to everyone who listened today and a huge thanks to Keith as well for coming on and telling us his story. If you really like what you hear or, you know, he maybe just kind of like it. I want to keep up to date. What else you can find us on social media at one DMC podcast.
[01:13:30] We post cool stuff there. I promise it. It's it's cool. I swear
[01:13:35] Keith: [01:13:35] you can
[01:13:35] Dan: [01:13:35] also check us out on our website. www.onedmcpodcast.com. We'll see you guys next week. Peace out. Stay safe. Bye bye.
