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[00:00:00] Chris: [00:00:00] Hello, another week, another episode of the one DNC podcast and we'll be finished recording today's episode. I told her guests that I thought he was some kind of bald ginger beard at St. Being a business owner myself. I have a deep respect for company founders. It's quite possibly the most psychologically demanding thing I could think of for any person to try no other test.
[00:00:19] I can think of be it physical or mental involves so many variables and must be insured for so long. The primary driver for most founders is the potential you the chance to be a massive drone fate and the opportunity to create their desire to lifestyles or today's guest is injured. All of that hardship, the setbacks and the anguish of life as a founder.
[00:00:37] But this isn't your typical startup, his startup wasn't as a charity and his primary drivers, not with autonomy. No, it's a desire to impact people suffering in silence with mental illness in a manner that breaks down any barriers to entry for care that he has seen in his own past Oshins scholared is the co-founder of turned to me along with his brother.
[00:00:55] Dearman they've built an amazing resource for anyone who might need it. Turn to me [00:01:00] as a community of fully qualified in the credit meant that health professionals working online to provide high-quality safe, anonymous, and confidential space for you to gain support wherever you are, wherever you need them, for whatever you're going through.
[00:01:13] I've never met anyone so altruistic with our time. And so dog and her determination to persevere for a greater good what drives a man to work a full-time job. And then in his spare time running another company with an incredibly delicate mission. I'm hoping that the listening today's episode, you will, uh, as the listener get a chance and our glimpse into what it takes to run a charity, who the people are behind the branding and how important initiatives like this can be FairWarning here.
[00:01:39] This is a difficult episode. You talk very candidly about suicide, about the effects of suicide on the ones left behind and how a family picks up the pieces after being nerdy destroyed by tragedy. I don't talk a whole lot in this one, as I was struggling to keep it together in parts. But as you know, I'm a crier once again, wherever you are, whatever you're doing with possibly listen to us.
[00:01:58] I hope you're well. [00:02:00] And if you're not with maybe check out, turn to meet at a. Or served surfery and if we're afraid of speaking to someone, you can even begin with a text dialogue to get you started. And no, we're not sponsored by turned to me and we're not getting paid for that affiliation. I'm just telling you somewhere to go.
[00:02:15] If you're not getting with now, before we jump in a little reminder, again, the show is free for you, but it's expensive as fuck for me. Uh, greatly appreciate if you could leave us a review on Apple podcasts, follow interact with us on social media, or even better share the show with people. Do you think I might like it?
[00:02:32] You know what attention is currency? I said it last week and we need attention of people who really need the show and really need to go on a process of self discovery. Now, before I start babbling anymore, this is episode 11 of the one DMC podcast with ocean scattered. Fast enough, listen up.
[00:02:51] Oisin: [00:02:51] That's cool.
[00:02:52] Jump out the bed. I got a
[00:02:59] a morning cup [00:03:00] of
[00:03:03] Noel: [00:03:03] Well, she in Scotland, you are very welcome to the one DMC podcast. It's great to have you on and we're going to be thank you for being here. Um, we've lots to talk about. Um, you are the co-founder of the turn to me organization. Um, I'm going to be looking as I suppose, about to turn to me organization and how it was created and, and the journey to that point.
[00:03:25] Um, the first thing I want to ask you, and I'm not sure if you've been listening to the, to the recent episodes, but it's something that we've been asking our guests because it's something that I, um, I asked, I asked in my work. And it's to get past the generic replies to w when we ask people how they're doing is to get past the generic employees of grand or Asher, you know, yourself, all that kind of stuff.
[00:03:48] Um, someone that knows, or she it's colored, how are you?
[00:03:55] Oisin: [00:03:55] Um, I, I kind of felt this question was coming. I [00:04:00] woke up during the night, uh, thinking I'm going to be asked by an old, the genuine question of, of how I am. Um, and, uh, I suppose the answer is okay, I'm being really honest and, you know, I've not being flippant about saying Grande or Asher, you know, all good, but, uh, a lot going on a lot of, a lot of it's a difficult time, I think a lot of competing pressures and, and, and things going on.
[00:04:22] And, and, uh, I often think of my, my, my late father used to say, uh, to people how's your leg, instead of how are you, um, when people used to be really trolled by that, like, what do you mean my leg, my legs grant and his, it was his way of kind of. That whole break down T to your point of the usual answer of on-ground and, and it was a bit of an ice breaker and I think a really cool way of connecting with you.
[00:04:46] Noel: [00:04:46] Yeah. Well, that'll thank Tom for that, because I'll, I'll steal that one. I'll uh, I might start asking that one now was a good one to troll people off, but that's the whole point of it. It's look, I kind of, I mentioned that I burned the words grand and the generic [00:05:00] answers, but the reason why I do that is just so we were conscious of doing it and people get conscious of how we're feeling.
[00:05:06] Like, like you said there, you said I'm doing okay. I know I've got still fun and, and that's okay. It's, it's the key thing is that we, we know about it. Is it something that you would ask kind of normally ask yourself, or is it just something that you're kind of, you have that kind of self-awareness just from, from years of, uh, of going through life.
[00:05:27] Oisin: [00:05:27] Yeah, I suppose, uh, for me, I have always kept really busy. Um, and, um, I don't, I don't, I can now I suppose I start to think about that a little bit more to go, well, why do you do that? Um, very rarely kind of slow down. And I think that's partly kind of like some kind of coping mechanism as well, to be always challenging yourself to be with work or with the charity or w whatever, you know, um, uh, do a bit of music and always trying to be better and push yourself in that way.
[00:05:58] Um, and I may be, it is [00:06:00] a coping mechanism, but it's kind of resiliency as well. Like for me, um, I look back at the things I've gone through and realize you got through them. So you're got to stronger by doing that, to bring it to the point that you are. So, um, So, so being in this situation. Yeah, I know. It's, I know it's tough when you can frame it that way, but equally no, there's a way true.
[00:06:23] Um, how to get through it is kind of believing in your own ability to get through it. So, um, that's the kind of the little routine I go through nearly every day.
[00:06:32] Noel: [00:06:32] Hmm that's that's a massive part. I think of, as you're coming up to a situation, it could be, you know, rough, or it could be hard or whatever it is, but it's knowing, and having that trust, trust within yourself to kind of get, get through this hard, difficult moments, I'll be upset, I'll be angry or the, whatever it is in the moment, acknowledging that.
[00:06:51] Um, but trust in yourself and backing yourself, I think to get through it. Um, you mentioned your, you have work, you [00:07:00] mentioned some music, but you also mentioned the charity and that charity is turned to me. Um, Turn to me started in 2009. I think it was, you met with your brother in 2008 and yet has an amazing idea because it's something that I think is massively important to just general society, but it's in particular, it's massively important to the scholared family.
[00:07:22] And there's a reason why, um, your brother died by suicide in 2003, your brother calmer. Yeah. Um, could you tell us a bit about comic about your brother, about, you know, his life and his journey?
[00:07:42] Oisin: [00:07:42] Yeah, um, it, I mean, Carmack was comic was a brother and a friend. Um, and someone that I thought I got on really well with, um, and was very close to, um, he, he was a musician. He was, uh, he was a sound engineer. [00:08:00] He was. He was, it was a, it was an all around really genuine kind of person on, on, on very kind of gentle kind of person, um, and was very, very heavily involved in the music scene in Dublin and recorded with, uh, with a number of, of, of well-known kind of Dublin Irish bands.
[00:08:17] And, um, he, uh, he, he was a creative kind of person. And, um, and that's why, you know, to, to this day you feel his legacy. You feel how he touched on your life. Um, in many, many ways. And there's a lot of really great memories when we think back to the days of sewn studios and temple bar, when you'd go in after.
[00:08:41] After after being in, in, in, in a bar or a club and there'd be a bond and karma could be there. And there was just, there was this great kind of crack that went on. Um, and a lot of my mates talk about that even to this day about, you know, the, the times that we, we, we tip into temple bar and temple bar, wasn't Dan, what it is now [00:09:00] with, you know, all the, the, the big bars.
[00:09:02] And, um, it was a bit more kind of downtrodden and on a bit, a bit more kind of, uh, rough around the edges, but it had a lot of character. Hmm.
[00:09:12] Noel: [00:09:12] Um, what, what was it like for the family? I suppose seeing him seemed like, was there a notable change in him over time or was it always something that, um, kind of mental health was a challenge for him?
[00:09:28] Or was it something that just came in randomly?
[00:09:32] Oisin: [00:09:32] So I think for. For Carmack. Um, he would say, um, did say that he had his demons, you know, he's kind of mental demons that tormented them. And, um, it was a real insight into, into, into people because Comac, I think never really, truly understood or appreciated his own unique brilliance.
[00:09:57] Like for example, he he'd paint [00:10:00] or he'd draw a person on a Unimin, it was a carbon copy of the P he'd capture the, the emotion of the person in, in, in the drawing that he do. And then he'd say it's not good enough and he'd tear it up. Um, he'd go again with a bond, um, rerecord a session and he was recording an album, um, right before he sadly passed away with a friend of his.
[00:10:25] And, um, it's an absolutely incredible album. And sadly it didn't get released because, because he's friends. Dennis didn't want to do that because they'd spent so much time together making Sloan and, and it's actually called Slonim. It does a sense of, we often think about this. There's a sense of irony, or I dunno what you'd call it in that, because the album, one of the most powerful songs on it is, is his salon and it's a beautiful song, but that Dennis wrote and they recorded it together and, and karmic sang in Nash.
[00:11:00] [00:11:00] And then when the album was finished, um, it's almost like he was waiting to finish all of that work and then, and then take his own life. Um, but he did have mental health challenges and, um, and a bit like myself and, uh, you know, being, being honest about that. And, um, you know, I would have found him a couple of times when he was, when he was in a particularly kind of bad way, but.
[00:11:29] And he did get help. And you did think that he could get through it. Um, but sometimes the, the, the pressures that someone feels internally on themselves, maybe in the, the, the challenges that they mentally go through become, become too much. Um,
[00:11:46] Chris: [00:11:46] can I just ask her sheen? We, you know, we use these words like, um, in a bad way, or how does demons or whatever, and I'm learning more and more that there are limitations that our language we use.
[00:11:58] So, you know, when I [00:12:00] say, um, I'm eating an Apple and you say you're eating an Apple, you know, and we say, it's tasty, you know, do we both mean the same thing? So from my experience, I have had experience of those darker moments are, you know, when someone says to me that we have our demons, I kind of get what they're mean, but can you, can you maybe paint a picture for me of how that manifested for Cormack, you know, was he.
[00:12:24] Um, routinely low. Was he a person who cried a lot? Um, you know, did he spend long periods of time alone? Um, you know, was he a person who was bedridden a lot? Like there are many different manifestations of what that we seem to have created this catchall, two words, mental health that seems to, you know, anyone who has any sort of mental illness is kind of now thrown into that bracket.
[00:12:49] But what did it look like for Cormack?
[00:12:54] Oisin: [00:12:54] Yeah. I mean, that's something that I, I, I reflect on now even to this day, because [00:13:00] it, for like, he wasn't someone that was, that was bedridden. He wasn't someone that routinely was low. I mean, he had his moments, I guess, where he was, where he was low. Um, and I suppose he ate like a lot of men on a man of dot age.
[00:13:21] He may not necessarily have always manifested it. True, true dialogue. And that's one of the things that we know strive to do with, with turn to me is target males in that particular kind of age group that kind of, tirty 30 to 45 or 50 age group because it's, there's not a huge amount of articulation. Um, and so it was difficult to really understand with him that the depth of, of, of what he was feeling or what he was thinking, because, um, [00:14:00] it, it, it, it was, it wasn't something that, that you could really probe or challenge if you get me.
[00:14:06] And, and yeah. And I struggle with that because, um, I didn't think he'd go through with. Uh, suicide. I think there had been, there have been signals of course, and there'd been some attempts and, and, and, um, but I never thought it would be, it would come to the finality of what, what did come about. And, and, um, and I was the last person to speak to him the night before.
[00:14:32] Um, and I guess, you know, with us, you're you play that back. That conversation plays back an awful lot now. Um, and it has dawned for the last 18 years, and it will do for the rest of your, your time as to, you know, you used that as an anchor to join back. So to your point, Chris, you start to go, well, where are there other sites and where are there?
[00:14:54] Yes, there were. But, but you never think you never accept that it's going to come to the stage [00:15:00] that it does because it's so final and it's a reversible and you can do North and about it ever again, except dwell. And
[00:15:08] Chris: [00:15:08] when it's a, they call it the silent killer, you know, um, It's almost cliche to say that, but it's because we do have a reticence human beings.
[00:15:18] Don't like to show that they're imperfect. You know, the veneer of perfection is pervasive in our society. We want to show that we have been successful in some regard are, you know, are healthy. It's all about, you know, signaling. Um, and they called it the silent killer because most of us who deal with this type of suffering, it's very hard to intelligently to explain it.
[00:15:41] I would say, um, you know, ask anyone who suffered with depression or bipolar disorder or any of these things to explain how it feels. And it's just, you know, people say a dark cloud or they say, you know, whatever comes to mind because they use, we revert to metaphor or, um, you know, whatever we think we'll be able to explain it to, to other [00:16:00] people.
[00:16:01] But I think it's just, it's a very unfortunate aspect of, um, you know, uh, depression is that if only we could. Talk about it more readily. Um, if only we could, you know, tell other people that were feeling this way, and if only we could understand that ourselves, cause I, I, you know, doubt, um, in any moment Cormick fully understood what was going on with him, you know, I'm sure you can testify to that, that it might have been difficult for him to, to explain to you, um, how he felt.
[00:16:35] But he probably couldn't explain to himself that we felt, you know, he was probably feeling quite burdened by the fact that he was down and he knew that you guys knew he was down. And that's just one of the unfortunate parts of, of the disease is that it leads you to a point where you just can't express yourself intelligibly.
[00:16:57] Um, but I [00:17:00] think, um, we should perhaps lead into is, you know, the. You spoke about the conversation you had the night before, and, you know, you obviously, you were the last person to speak to him, but I think it would be, uh, important to speak about the actual event of what happened around the event itself or the day of it.
[00:17:26] Um, just to give people, uh, um, an inkling into how that manifests for you. And I think I, I am very interested in how you were affected, perhaps I know the rest of your family were affected, uh, from, from the incident. So could you perhaps tell us about the day, um, and the events of the day?
[00:17:48] Oisin: [00:17:48] Yeah. Um, it's, uh, it's as vivid now, was it as, as, as Dan, I can, I can replay almost every aspect of it, but the, the day, [00:18:00] uh, w itself, um, Have been, like I said, I'd had the, the, the, the, the, the last conversation with karma the night before.
[00:18:09] And, um, during that nice, like, you know, predicate this by saying I'm not a very religious person, but it will be certainly a spiritual kind of person, but, but predicated as well, by saying that, you know, there was no, there was no alcohol on board or anything like that. But, but, but, but I felt, I felt a very, very powerful force awakened me at around 4:00 AM that night.
[00:18:36] And I knew straight away. I mean, I sat in the edge of the bed on, I knew, I knew that something terrible had happened on, I knew what had happened to Carmack, and it was almost a sense of comfort, um, in a weird kind of way. But then the comfort very quickly was replaced with a sense of panic and anguish.
[00:18:58] Um, I got up [00:19:00] the next day. And I went to work on I, how to feeling very strong, feeling that something really, um, terrible at after happening. Um, and I was on, uh, then there was a Microsoft messenger, there was a messenger chat with my two brothers and older, older brothers. And we were chatting away because of, I think there was a collective sense that something wasn't right.
[00:19:24] And then, and then at around half 10, maybe 10 o'clock that morning, I got a phone call from, from, uh, from my father, Tom. And he could, um, he could barely speak, um, on eco to just, you know, say the words that it was karma. And, uh, I jumped up off my desk and my boss was sitting two desks away and he jumped up and said, I will bring you, it was like, everyone kind of knew something had just happened to it.
[00:19:52] Very hard to explain it. And when you got there, um, it was a very. [00:20:00] McCobb surreal sense that the door to the flush, it was, uh, you know, an old kind of red brick house on, in a indoctrination. The door was open and there were people in the driveway and, and everything was kind of moving very slow motion. And you're trying to get a grasp on what's going on here.
[00:20:20] And his best friend Dez was there and there was a guard there that was a guard that went to school with them. And, you know, you got a sense very quickly that this is, this is, this is now very serious. It's very fatal. Um, and, and, and people just couldn't really comprehend it. They couldn't articulate. So, but I can remember everybody's face
[00:20:48] Noel: [00:20:48] it's it's, um, like of often. Refer to it, to suicide and at someone's death in that way, as a Savage thing, it was something that I was out of. Uh, [00:21:00] one of my friends and my teammates, um, his funeral, unfortunately, my manager at the time. He I'll never forget it. He was standing beside me and he just looked at me, said Sweeney Jesus, it's a Savage thing.
[00:21:14] And it always stuck that always stuck with me that the savagery of fire obviously has affected the person, um, in this case, Carmack, um, and then obviously yourself or Shane and, and the whole family. Um, and just what we were talking about earlier, it's that kind of, as Chris mentioned, that that silent killer it's like, as soon as you were talking there and I'm hearing this beautiful soul of this musician and like any of us could be walking down kind of true Tampa buyer at the time, and I'm walking by him and gosh, he's looking at he's living the life, the musician recording.
[00:21:48] And I just, in my head, I just see like, there's just that darkness behind the light that's there. And as a musician, we think that the light of the musician with the darkness that's going on there for karma. Um, but what [00:22:00] was. What w what was the time after that for you? Like, I know, like, obviously the family there as well, but what was that like?
[00:22:09] What was it like for you that the kind of the days and weeks processing that? Or were you even able to process that? Or,
[00:22:20] Oisin: [00:22:20] yeah, I mean, that's something that now, uh, I feel, I suppose more comfortable to talk about because, um, I I've said this before, you know, th th th 2003 to 2009, it's like, you hit the fast forward button and, and yeah. Um, I've never really talked about that six year period, um, openly or honestly before, because it's, it's, uh, it's just a very dark part of your life to go back to, um, you know, when you, when you got through, excuse me, that, that, that the immediacy of a sh um, [00:23:00] I think it was a Testament to him because we, we had awakened the house.
[00:23:05] And so many people came. I mean, I mean, there was, it was like a carousel of people coming in and out there was that many people, you know, and, um, and his funeral and then the priority that was hard. Cause that we, you know, he would have liked us. Uh, we went back to, um, an Irish traditional bar. That was, that was an entire era at the time.
[00:23:25] And the place was full and people stayed for the whole day and night, um, in, in, and there was a huge sing song to him. So it was a lovely sendoff and very fitting to someone who was, uh, you know, a music man. Um, but then when not die down your left, your left, your left with your own thoughts when you're left with your own guilt and you're left in a place of trying to package it up internally and, and make sense out of.
[00:23:59] Where [00:24:00] there you could have changed something or whether you could have done something differently or said something differently. And, you know, there was you think back to moments where, because when you talk about these things that I think it's really important to, to, to, to point out that finality and irreversible nature of suicide, because nobody ever stands up and does a eulogy at a funeral and says, you know what, they were an awful GCAT.
[00:24:31] And, um, it's you always hear, you always hear with, with, with suicide, sadly, it's, you know, th the, the, the contribution that that person had, or the impact that that person had, or the, the, the personality that they had. And it seems to be kind of a characteristic from what I. No anecdotally see of people who, who sadly died by suicide and, but they think differently.
[00:24:56] Um, but this is the re the reality of, of you being [00:25:00] left, trying to put together a very broken jigsaw that, that doesn't fit and it never will, um, drives you into an element of despair. Um, and it did for me as well, and I know you have to go and seek out help. And, um, it wouldn't have been something that I wouldn't necessarily have done before.
[00:25:20] And, um, I remember, I remember a Christmas just shortly afterwards, just feeling a lot of mental despair. It, it, it didn't help for me personally, that, that, you know, I kind of took it out, um, would have drank drink was a great number. The weekends, I lived for the weekends and on big weekends. And, um, it didn't help.
[00:25:46] I mean, looking back now, I know I now see that as a 43 year old, looking back to the th the 20 five-year-old and that was not the way to, to deal with it, but Hey, you know, you, [00:26:00] if you're in a rhythm of something and you're in that kind of despair, you'll, you'll find your way of, of navigating that. Unless you get someone to help with daughter, you, unless you get an intervention on, on, generally I found the way that I was dealing with it was not, it was self destructive in a way.
[00:26:17] Um, and I never forget a mate of mine, um, said to me, after a couple years, he goes, man, you never talk about this. Like, it can't be, it can't be easy. Um, and I think what he was trying to say was, you need to get, you need to, you know, you need to get something done about this and. The way you're dealing with is not the right way to deal with it.
[00:26:35] So, so I did. And, um, and it was kind of stereotypical walking into the counselor's room and online on a Sage line, on a touch, you know, here we go. Now I'm going to get, I'm going to be asked to interpret pictures, like cliches, where in my head. Yeah, I am. But it wasn't like that, you know, it was at, it was where do we start?
[00:26:57] Let's start. I taught, where do we start on the counselor? Civil, [00:27:00] where do you want to start? You know, so I thought that was, you know, an interesting way of approaching it and, and it was massively cathartic and, um, and on stepped true something to step out of it, but equally to try and make sense of what had happened before was, was difficult,
[00:27:19] Noel: [00:27:19] been on your radar.
[00:27:20] I know you've kind of touched on that, but I had to like talk therapy or anything like that, been on your radar X and just, I suppose it's just gauging the, that would have been, as you said earlier, 18 years ago, this was a big time different Stan. Was it on your radar at all? Or was it a, was it a difficult thing for you to start psychotherapy or therapy?
[00:27:42] Oisin: [00:27:42] Yeah, I think so. Um, because a lot has changed in that 18 years. Like it's, it's, it's a huge sea change in art. And I think then it was very, it was still an element of taboo around us. Um, I mean, even, um, I'll never forget, you [00:28:00] know, karma could a great sense of humor. Like when he was, when he was once in, in, in, in, in, in getting some help, I won't name where, and they, they had, um, they had the, you know, the, the kind of the, the, the pitch and poke golf, and he said, we're not low called a crazy golf.
[00:28:16] And, um, I remember Ben enough, you know, um, if there wasn't that openness, I don't think around us. Um, and there wasn't a huge amount of help supports either, you know, karma could try to get help himself, sadly, the night of his. Well, the suicide and on, on it just wasn't there. Um, and, and for me, I found it a real struggle.
[00:28:39] Like I'll never forget that going on it going onto Google, Dr. Google and just Googling. That was even a bit daunting. Whereas now I feel like there's a lot more guidance. There's a lot more, you know, you can begin what your GP, there's much more avenues for it. And it's much more NGOs out there as well.
[00:29:00] [00:29:00] Chris: [00:29:00] Um, you said you, you, he asked you, where did you want to start?
[00:29:04] And I'd be interested in just from a, you know, an outsider's perspective, you know, where did you start? And, you know, what was the Catholicism or the process of Iowa was talk about peeling back layers of an onion with no, that the stories I would tell about myself and to him about my life have changed.
[00:29:24] Um, and I can kind of, I journal it out so I can actually track the stories I would tell about who I want it to be and what I am and where I want to go. And, you know, who had often who I don't love and all of these things, because we are, we are just essentially the stories we tell. And I'm wondering, where did you start and was forgiveness, perhaps a theme for you?
[00:29:43] And I won't say forgiving whom, because I think there's a, you know, a lot of forgiveness of yourself and other people too. So it wasn't a theme.
[00:29:53] Oisin: [00:29:53] Yeah. I think, um, the starting point was the, was the, it was kind of like they [00:30:00] walked in the door and don't, uh, kind of use the analogy of almost like a, a temper truck coming in and dumping out a whole load of baggage all over the place.
[00:30:12] Um, because it really was around that, that episode of, I knew where I was mentally. Wasn't a great place. And. Um, needed to understand or, or, or own package th th th the previous couple of years and on what had happened. So that was really the starting place. Was that the level of, um, I guess the level of guilt and the level of, um, a feeling of hopelessness really often, because you can't change what's happened.
[00:30:47] Um, and it's not anger towards the person it's anger towards yourself, um, as to why you didn't do more or, or maybe didn't intervene, or why I wish I could [00:31:00] take back something to try and resolve dash that's, that's extremely difficult to, to, to get to, but, but we did, and it took time. It took a long time,
[00:31:14] Chris: [00:31:14] and I was wondering like, can you.
[00:31:16] Intervene. Um, you know, this is when I think back to moments where I perhaps had suicidal ideations. I wonder, uh, people might've said certain things to me, but I got to come to the conclusion. I have to come to a conclusion that, you know, I don't want to carry this out. I don't want to do this for whatever reason.
[00:31:34] Um, I can't remember specifically how I justified it, but I remember thinking like that the people that I may affect will be perhaps more effected by this, by the collateral damage I caused then by, um, you know, the pain that I'm feeling. So I'm going to, like, I want to cause what I'm feeling to the people around me.
[00:31:54] And it's probably going to be worse for them because they're going to not understand it. At [00:32:00] least I partially understand my own pain. Um, they can't understand my pain, but I can. Um, I always wonder, you know, you know, if, if we talk about and people do always feel very guilty around the situation, Because if your loved one dies by suicide, everyone, always questions.
[00:32:19] Why, you know, there's no one there to give you the answer. Um, and I wonder, is there, you know, you know, they'd ask you this, you know, is there an intervention that you can do, you know, is there a right thing to say in those moments
[00:32:34] Noel: [00:32:34] it's not necessary the right thing to, I wouldn't say it's the right thing to say.
[00:32:38] Um, could you say this, the wrong thing to say possibly. Um, but the main thing is, um, there's two parts of it as opposed to short, the longer term and that kind of the common thing that's out there, which is, you know, what we're talking, what we're doing was, or she in is created, um, to [00:33:00] get it kind of common knowledge that it's out there.
[00:33:03] It's, it's in the it's, it's in, it's in the breeze. It's, it's kind of, it's ongoing there, but it does also. You know, like I said, give as many options as possible to a person beforehand. Um, but it's also, it's, there's definitely things that we can do in the moment. Um, absolutely by just asking quite often, a lot of people say, I don't want to be bothering the person, you know, by asking them how they are, is not going to make them do anything.
[00:33:35] Um, if anything, the only thing the majority of it will make them do is talk is to know that I have that option. I do know they have that option. I I've, I've, I've done some, um, work, the, um, uh, it's gone away from my mind. Um, like there's research into that because I know that's a common thought that comes up as a, I didn't want to say anything in case I triggered them to do something, [00:34:00] not the case.
[00:34:01] Um, but it's, like I said, There's two parts with it, getting it out as a conversation, but it doesn't need to be, need to be this massive thing that we're doing stuff beforehand. Um, but then also that if there are things in the moment, like I often say to people, like if, um, if, if it did come up for you, you know, as a therapist, you would, you would kind of talk with that person.
[00:34:24] Or, um, I can always say to people, look, if anything, that little task comes into your head at all, because it can come in and it can grow. It can come in and then go away. And then equipment again. I often say to people just like, if you just stop a stranger industries, but what, I don't care, I don't give a shit.
[00:34:42] If it means you're staying alive and you're staying with us and be embarrassed, I'd rather you be embarrassed and here than not talk, drop into a guard, drop into a coffee, shop, drop into someone, but don't take the force. No, keep going until you find the S cause there's probably some, there's a good [00:35:00] chance of someone that's going through that right now, listening to this.
[00:35:03] And they think a restaurant is referenced it before, but the way I describe it is if you've got like, does it, there's a pain there, it has an inner turmoil savagery in, in our, in our, in our, in our emotional seven or mental self and our physical self of kind of this torturous thing that's going on, um, within inside us.
[00:35:23] And we want to end that feeling. We want to stop feeling awful, but unfortunately I think what happens with w w w lots of people is that they kind of, they think to end that feeling, the only way to end that feeling is to end their life. And that's what the best way to end that feeling is actually keeping your life is using life to end that feeling.
[00:35:44] And like I said, it's just hanging in there as much as you can to support for those people around it's it's to keep it, keep an eye on them as much as we can. Unfortunately, there are instances where there's, there's just nothing we can do as well. Um, it, it gets to that point and like, [00:36:00] And that's, that's a massively hard and an amazing piece of work that you did for yourself and an honor of Cormac as well, that you processed that, that you went to see someone because it's a really, it's an incredibly difficult thing to, um, to reconcile or to find some sort of, um, acceptance.
[00:36:19] Um, like I said, that law will be there. Those questions will always be there. It will always pop into your head, but by you doing that work on yourself, it means that you're able to, um, you know, just have a healthy kind of good response for that in your own, in your own mind. Um, and I think one of the key things to, to look at, and the reason why we're talking about this, because it emphasizes the point and really doors, but we see it as beautiful person that was there.
[00:36:49] It started truly, I know you mentioned that the, the, the, his wake was this amazing occasion and, um, And it's always something that I, that I see at funerals is people talk so [00:37:00] well about them. And, and it's awfully sad that the person doesn't get to see and truly feel how the family members and the friends really taught about them.
[00:37:11] And it's, it's, it's trying to get them. So that, that, that's why we're talking about this. It's. So again, anyone that's listening though, your family members and your friends, whatever you think they think you're your shifts. You're no good. You're you won't amount to anything. Absolutely not the case. They, they have all the time of the world from yet for you.
[00:37:32] So it may not appear that way, but always just push through and try not to try to ask. Um, obviously it had a massively massive effect on you or Shane. Um, we spoke a little bit, um, last week and you'd, you'd mentioned to us, um, your dad, Tom, who say your dad passed away a couple of years ago. I think it was early 2019.
[00:37:53] Um, What, what effect did that have on your dad?
[00:38:01] [00:38:00] Oisin: [00:38:01] Yeah, it affected them. It affected a lot of people. Uh, it w there was a huge ripple effect, um, to some car, very close friends, um, within the family. Um, so an awful lot of people, you know, to this day, he comes up a lot. I mean, it's, it's, uh, it's an important discussion point for, for, for people. Um, on, at the time there was, um, some of his friends, one actually went quite public, um, at the time, because he was kind of in the public, in the, in, in the public eye Ronan.
[00:38:41] And he, he went into the Sunday world and he spoke about it. And then as a family, Uh, we, we, you know, my, my, my parents just took a decision that they were going to be equally open about this and Nash, uh, not just be another statistic and another family impacted by suicide B, be a [00:39:00] family that can try to effect some change.
[00:39:03] And I'm bringing about a bit of open dialogue around suicide because, um, the lack of discussion at the time, and maybe to a certain extent, even to today, which is why this is so important in what we're doing here to talk about. Suicide is so important. Um, gives this multidimensional look at it. And from my dad, um, when they died, Tom, he, he, uh, you know, he, he, he, he again was a great character musician himself, um, was in the show band in the, in the fifties and sixties in Waterford called it the rhythm Kings.
[00:39:42] Um, on a, on a music producer, uh, and true, true, true his whole career, he was kind of more old school Ireland. Um, in the sense of, you didn't really talk about mental health or you didn't talk about what was going on in, [00:40:00] in, in your head. Um, but it did massively impacted me and impacted both of my parents.
[00:40:06] Um, my motor, my father, you know, but dad was really impacted by it and, and he did get some help. The company I was working for at the time provided free counseling for anyone that wanted to in your immediate family. And that was really progressive, uh, a us company, um, Accenture, that, that provided that then, I mean, now it's kind of commonplace in a lot of companies, but they were doing that then.
[00:40:33] And he availed of it and found it helpful for him to, to, to, to try and. Again, just put some understanding if you can, on, on, on what has just happened. But I think it changed everybody. Um, and it changed him and it changed my parents, you know, for, you never want to bury a child, um, put to do that [00:41:00] when it's, when it's suicide, it's just extremely difficult on them.
[00:41:04] Um, because they're left with so many questions again, and, you know, they were very close to, to calm a calm record of being in and out of the house a lot. And he was, he kind of helped them and did a lot for them. So he always felt that I think that follied, he got better at dealing with it, but the void was always there.
[00:41:32] And yeah, I, I, I. I think after a period of time, we talked less about what has happened and because it was equally as well. I don't, I don't think there's ever a point where you truly understand and accept something and then you can go back to us. It's like you get to, to a place of maybe understanding it a little bit better and maybe accepting it, but you don't really [00:42:00] want to always kind of go, um, the best.
[00:42:03] So now the G I ever heard about this was a friend of mine who was involved in the, in the NGO at the, at the start said that he had, he had worked with, with, with homeless Irish people in London. And one of the things that they were taught was if you're going to unpack somebody's bikes, you better know how to put them back together again.
[00:42:27] And I think that stands true here. If you're, if you're going to go by, back on, on pack dash. You, you almost invoke or re, re, re re bring up those, those feelings again. So, um, so it's, it's, it's a, it's a difficult thing to, I suppose, to kind of reconcile longer-term yeah,
[00:42:50] Noel: [00:42:50] I think that's, and that's something you've come across in more, like I say, work, I don't, it doesn't feel like work to me.
[00:42:57] It's just as a psychotherapist, but it's, [00:43:00] I think that is massively important that in a privileged position that you, you, you shared this to go back with someone, but it is really important that you give them the tools, the frameworks, the different abilities to be able to, to piece that back together, because there's a lot to be lived there.
[00:43:14] Um, did you ever talk to your dad about it too, to sit wherever you saw some in a place where he's just had a chat about it?
[00:43:27] Oisin: [00:43:27] Yeah, I think we, we, you know, frequently, um, so I was very close with my dad and we got on. Really well, so we, we, we, we could, we would frequently, um, go for a pint or go watch a match or go, whatever it was. And, um, um, and we would always remember Carmack. Um, he'd always be toasted, for example, if we were together as a group or in the house, or it was Christmas, or it was Easter.
[00:43:54] And, um, and we did, we, we talked about him as a person. [00:44:00] Um, I think it was always, you know, that, that was, that was kind of the gift that I think karma gave on the Tom hot as well was to remember the person for what they were versus talk about the, the, the act of, of, of suicide, because that can often dominate then and almost become the person's legacy, um, versus all the other things that they did and the impacts that they had and the music and our team.
[00:44:31] The many friends and the, the, the good times. So, um, I think that was more always the focus th the, the finality of rarely being honest, because I don't think people, I don't think humanity understands dash. I don't think humanity can understand, like, we're not great at dealing with debt full stop, which is why you often hear people say, [00:45:00] I D I don't really know what to say except to say, I'm sorry.
[00:45:02] And I'm sorry for your loss. If we go through those things that we say that are cliche, but we don't like when it comes to suicide, we really don't know how to talk about that after the fact, because it's just not something that's, that's within our understanding, or I dunno, it's hard to put words on that.
[00:45:23] Noel: [00:45:23] I think there's a, there's obviously that there's a kind of a scaredness of, of death. Anyway, I think that depending on different cultures and, uh, on that, particularly in, uh, in Ireland anyway, and similar cultures, but particularly the book and then on the film, the field comes to mind and, and, uh, when the bulls sauna and there was this, uh, it was a really good point that you made there of the, kind of like a shame or self that can be associated with it are dots defines that the person that is no longer with us and it's absolutely not.
[00:45:57] It's, it's fantastic. You as a [00:46:00] family and your, and your dad was able to do that to now, this is what I'm going to focus on. This is something that's happened to him, uh, to, to your brother. Um, and this is obviously then something that's happened to the family, but. Absolutely. It's the focus on that beautiful person that's there that we, that we know was Cormac or that who was whoever this has happened to?
[00:46:21] Um, that's a, it's an absolutely, it's an important thing to, to look at, um, following that time, working on yourself and on your dad, um, in 2008, I think it was, you mess with one of your other brothers at Dermot. Um, and you met in a pub, um, of two questions. Firstly, where was the Pope?
[00:46:49] Oisin: [00:46:49] Uh, it was near EES, uh, which was our little haunt.
[00:46:53] Yeah. And
[00:46:54] Noel: [00:46:54] secondly, did you go in there thinking, right. We're going to have this conversation to create something or [00:47:00] where he is just in there having a chasse and kind of what happened from there.
[00:47:06] Chris: [00:47:06] Hey guys, sorry to interrupt. I know this is slightly annoying, but I've got a question. What is the point of a podcast like this, a podcast about mental health while you're known and I doing this well, normally we want to reach as many people as possible.
[00:47:21] You want to let them know that talking openly with your loved ones, about how you feel, your worries. Your fears is key to finding peace of mind and staying healthy. So how can you help us please take out your phone right now and share this episode with one person, just one person you think might like it would really, really help us out a lot.
[00:47:39] Now back to the show,
[00:47:43] Oisin: [00:47:43] I think, um, uh, I was, um, to a certain extent still am to this day, a bit of a dreamer and, you know, coming up with ideas and. Um, and people would often say here's another one of ocean's [00:48:00] ideas, but, but that was, um, probably one of the better ones, if, if the only good one. Um, but you know, we walked into a bar, you know, it's, uh, we have this slide that we have on, on, on the presentation around turn to me.
[00:48:13] And it's two, two guys, two Baldy guys walk into a bar and order two points again, you know, it's a very, very stereotypical way to a lot of Irish stories start, but w what we did, and, um, I think there, you know, there was a healing period, like I said, of a dark kind of five or six years. And then it was a kind of an action period of, you know, wash.
[00:48:37] We need to do something about this. Um, uh, sadly a lot hadn't cutely changed in that five-year period. And I think when you, when you, when you, when you think about ways to solve something you think in, within the parameters of maybe what. Your experiences on what you know, and what we knew was we knew [00:49:00] online.
[00:49:00] Um, I was working, uh, in, in, in the kind of online digital world, um, which was nascently building like, you know, I was in Nash in 2002, 2003. And, and it was still very young, Diane, I suppose, and, um, dermato graphic designer and on had his own business. So, um, was moving into the kind of online, uh, design element.
[00:49:26] And so, um, and then it, it, it, it seemed kind of obvious because calmer actually at the time he was using things like Yahoo chat rooms, which for anyone listening on and remembers those, they were this kind of antiquated. Uh, thing you downloaded onto your computer and you went in and, and talks to people all over the world, but there was a cathartic elements to the, to connect them with people and, uh, not always stoked in our mind.
[00:49:53] And then we thought, well, what if we did this for, in the Irish context and datas in a way that [00:50:00] you were building an online community of people that could connect in a safe way and supportive way. And we had a founding kind of ethos, which is still there today to be nonjudgmental nonreligious and nonpolitical.
[00:50:15] Hmm.
[00:50:18] Noel: [00:50:18] What, what is turned to me and kind of to satisfy, I suppose, what it does,
[00:50:27] Oisin: [00:50:27] Kim it's kind of mantra is to be a lifeline online. Um, now it's evolved a lot over the last number of years because, um, that the, the way that. Services are delivered have evolved, but that's it at its essence was bringing people together, um, into a safe, supportive community to be a lifeline online ticket, to connect to others who may be experiencing or thinking similar thoughts or backgrounds or experiences to talk about Donna and articulate that.
[00:50:56] So it was a forum at the start. And then, and then our [00:51:00] articles got audit and self-help guides. And then, and then a support group got out of which is a digital support group where people can connect up to kind of 15 people can connect and talk with a facilitator, um, about particular mental health topics.
[00:51:15] And then in 2013 launched online counseling. So the ability to go online and connect with the counselor, um, true chassis, true video. Or true voice over IP, you know, voice directed counseling, but whatever medium suits at that person. And it's, it was there to break down barriers. You know, one thing that we felt, and I personally I'd felt it as well.
[00:51:42] Is that going on to Google and searching? I need to help her, you know, counseling, or you may not even know the counseling. Right? Navigating mental health is extremely difficult. Like you've got, uh, counselors, you have psychologists, you have [00:52:00] psychiatrists, you have daycare. You've, you've got drug treatment
[00:52:03] Noel: [00:52:03] treatment.
[00:52:04] Yeah, there's over 700 different types of psychotherapeutic approach. I wake forest kind of delve into, as a client would have been. I was lucky that I had a lecturer at the time in college and Tyler, um, John McDonogh, he was a psychologist and I just asked him what it's trying to know where to start. Um, um, what was that like, trying to, I suppose, get that out there and, and understand that as you were suppose you had some understanding of, of obviously attending, but even then, I'm sure he is still just as confused, but what was it like trying to set it up and, and kind of what, what, what we do where we, who would we put in here and make the, make it more accessible for people?
[00:52:49] Oisin: [00:52:49] Yeah, I mean, it was, uh, it w w it's been, uh, it's been a massive journey. I think that's the first thing to say. Like, when we started off, we didn't know what we were doing. At all. [00:53:00] Um, we had, we had no money really to weed, so money, but like not enough to, to, to get this kind of going, we were, we were beg, beg and steal and borrow and whatever you could do.
[00:53:12] Um, and so like anyone looking objectively would have said, you know, here's two boys that don't know what they're doing. They don't have any money really to get this thing off the ground. And, uh, it's kind of doomed from day one, but like let them off. But we didn't, we didn't let that kind of discourage that fact.
[00:53:33] Um, and we launched, uh, on the pod canny radio show on RTE because Pat knew my, my dad, Tom, and they'd worked together for years. So, so we went in that morning and launched, and we'd built the site that decided built for kind of eight or nine months. And people just kind of clumped together and built this and it went on.
[00:53:57] And went live.date on the park, any [00:54:00] radio show myself. And I'm the clinical advisor at the time Phillip, we went in and we were sitting outside pack, any studio and folk pour and sweat. It was a hot, hot on the time it was August. And then the light went red and we went, Oh Jesus, here we go. And then like, you know, um, pod, Kenny's got this fairly big, uh, presence.
[00:54:19] And the mic went, the light went red and then he was like, good mood. And that was it. We were, we were live on, on it really. Like that was such a great moment because when we walked out of the studio, eco immediately got phone calls gone is people coming on, there's hundreds and thousands came on that day from all over the country on the community, just started to build, um, on, on people, people of all walks of life, all backgrounds, all parts of the country all came together and connected in this.
[00:54:56] Partly anonymous kind of world, because you created a username [00:55:00] and that's all people saw. And, um, and then some people offered their help and some people offer to be moderators. And some people said they'd been true, a difficult time, we're at a better place and could help. And it just kind of blossomed from there.
[00:55:15] Yeah.
[00:55:17] Noel: [00:55:17] Did it help you initially or has it helped you or how has it helped you creating that? What was it like? Um, or Shane and, and sitting in, in near, is it 2008 and then we launched the online service. It has an in 13 and even up to now kind of what stopped being like, w w w were you aware that it could have helped you or was helping at the time or was it, will you just stay a little kind of caught up in setting it up.
[00:55:50] Oisin: [00:55:50] Yeah, it's a good question. And that's a question that a lot of people do ask, like, was this, um, was setting this up a kind of, uh, a terribly, in some [00:56:00] ways for, for the two of us, excuse me. I don't know if we'd honestly say that now or after our, after, uh, after 12 years, was it, was it a terror P because it's been hard.
[00:56:10] I mean, every step of the way, like does to those two sides to turn to meet is that, and I'm sure this is the same the world over for people that up NGOs, there's the cause I've spoken to them and I've spoken to people very honestly about this. Um, there's the front end of does over a hundred thousand members on turn to me and, uh, in the last year alone, uh, it's, it's provided.
[00:56:38] Close to 10,000 hours of counseling. True. This pandemic that's, you know, that's where you go. Wow. That's, that's, that's amazing that that amount of people help there's there's um, on the peer community over the last number of months, there's been, there's been numerous escalations each month to for, for someone that's in crisis and you go that's, [00:57:00] that's amazing.
[00:57:00] But on, on, on the backend of it, there's the reality of, of building and running. Something like this that you're very much are, are, are sometimes nearly more absorbed by it than you are by the front and reality of if you get me, because you got to find the money and you got to find the people and as great people that have worked in turn to me over the years, but it's, it's, it's a hard environment to be in where you're at the coalface of the reality of what's going on in our society at this time.
[00:57:36] And what people are going through on your providing interventions and help for lush. Um, there's all the still can spreadsheets trying to figure out how to form the next project or, um, you know, as Dearman says, there's been times when the bank account hit 1 cent, you know, in the earlier days, um, there's, you know, shit, we need to get up on this regulation or GDPR came, [00:58:00] which, uh, was a huge challenge for a small NGO.
[00:58:04] Like how do you navigate this Goliath? That's just being brought out by the EU, which has a massive impact for how you deliver mental health services. Cause it's a, it's a health service and we have to go and navigate that. Um, so you were always doing your best, um, could you be doing better? Absolutely. Um, so it's kind of not split dimension of, uh, but now where we stand is you have to look back over the years and look at the amount.
[00:58:34] Th th th the core thing is the amount of people that have been helped, I think, is, is your driving kind of force.
[00:58:43] Chris: [00:58:43] So that's really what I want to ask you is that's, what's driving you now is the altruism of this, the idea that you are, because, you know, nobody who, um, are anybody who has started a company would [00:59:00] understand how difficult it is to get a company from zero to one, you know, from, from a normal trading company from zero to a certain, um, revenue is near impossible.
[00:59:10] Like the statistics of the companies that fail are it's very, very large. Yeah. So only a small, small core to companies survive. And that's chiefly because, um, you know, the economic landscape is difficult to navigate, but more importantly than that, You know, the psychology of running a business is extremely difficult dealing with, you know, the HR elements and dealing with constantly having to, um, you know, have your early on, on the balance sheet and trying to understand how to cashflow the business and all that kind of stuff.
[00:59:40] So you have this colony of, of emotions going on here because this thing that you've started, it's not your, your data hub. You're doing this in your spare time. I just wanted to point this out. The thing that you're doing here is bringing up the emotions [01:00:00] and perhaps, uh, Anastasia that you don't always want to carry.
[01:00:04] And it, I, I know personally that. You know, this podcast for me is, is quite difficult. There are times where it's actually hindering my progress for my own mental health, my own depression, because I'm dealing with, um, other people's stories that are bringing, like, I, I talked about the Shane character episode for me.
[01:00:24] Um, you know, knocked me for six for about a week after I, you know, I had to take days off work and stuff after, because it just brought up so much emotion that I just went into. I had a depressive episode, you know, I had a panic attack two days later. So, you know, this is a personal question for me, but I suppose what I want to ask is, is it the altruism that's driving you now?
[01:00:48] Or is there something else that is the driving force for you?
[01:00:55] Oisin: [01:00:55] Yeah, I mean, I think it's a
[01:01:00] [01:01:00] hard one to really answer. I mean, like when we set it up, um, I had. Um, equally gotten involved in a business. So we set up a business at the time, three of us called employment clinic. Cause I left work as well in 2006 and went back and studied and talked. I kind of leap, um, and, um, and studied the bar and invested a huge amount of personal money in that.
[01:01:25] And actually got quite a bit of dash mounted, uh, personally. And then in 2009 employment clinic and turned to me launched and turned to me, survived employment clinic failed, uh, ultimately. Or do you started to get out of it after two years? Because there just wasn't enough income in it. Um, so you're absolutely right, Chris.
[01:01:45] I mean, setting up a business is extremely difficult to the rice. I'm on my own. No, on there. What happens now? When you wait for the phone to ring, the phone's not ringing, uh, well we got to get the phone to start ringing or you got to go out and start ringing people. Whereas we paycheck there is no [01:02:00] paycheck.
[01:02:00] Um, so yeah, th that's the kind of dynamic that, that Ali went through as well, personally. Um, but turned to me has always been, it's never been about kind of personal gain or money or anything like that. Um, the work that we've done has been purely for the benefit of seeing the impact. Um, and I think it's, it's the, it's, it's an odd paradigm of you've gone through it yourself personally.
[01:02:35] So therefore. You feel like you, I think at the beginning we wanted to maybe boil the ocean nearly and unhelped as many people as you could, because that was part of the grief, but also part of the reality of knowing what I don't want this to happen to other people. So therefore we've got this thing where we feel that's going to be able to, to, to help a huge amount of [01:03:00] people, but, and it has, and it was, but what you can't help everyone.
[01:03:03] I think that's one thing that, that I've realized on an order thing that I've realized is that you, you can own, you have to be realistic about the mission of what you're trying to do at the organizational level on personally as well, and not allow yourself get caught up in that. I think at the beginning, I, we got very, very consumed by, by turning to me, um, for probably the first.
[01:03:30] Four or five years was probably a pain in the arse to be around them. And I know people have said that, like, it was all you talked about, it was all you were focused on was, was turned to me. And now it's, it's more about being realistic.
[01:03:47] Chris: [01:03:47] I think in my mind, I have this image of you like transcending the pain through this altruistic act of, you know, I'm going to spend a lot of time.
[01:03:56] I'm going to have this emotional journey of, of [01:04:00] setting something up and setting up a company for profit is difficult enough. I always say to people, when they tell me they're going to start a company, I'm like, yeah, that's absolutely fantastic. It can change your life for positive. We can also change your life negatively.
[01:04:11] Like this is going to be the hardest thing you've ever done. Uh, and it, it, it can be forever. So it's never going to get easy. It's kind of like, you know, in fitness, the fitter you get, it doesn't really matter. It's always really painful, um, to run a PV. And I have this image in my mind of you doing this altruistically and it driving you.
[01:04:33] But it's interesting to hear you talk about it now. And I'm, I'm trying to understand, because I think from a person who's living with depression, I personally believe that, um, you know, nothing's going to cure me. I have to learn resilience and I have to learn to live with it. And it will live alongside me.
[01:04:51] I feel for the rest of my life. So how do I, um, you know, curate my life so that I can live with it, then what do I need? I need [01:05:00] resilience. I need grit. And I need to cultivate a sense of optimism because optimism is a precursor to almost everything good in, in one's life. You know, you're looking forward into your, your future.
[01:05:10] Depression, just kind of, uh, uh, it's, you're looking in reverse and you're also looking forward as the difficulty it's, it's over ruminating about those two things, but do you think what's getting you through now? If it's not just the, because it's not money because you're not going to make money from a charity, uh, you know, if it's the realism you're talking about and that's getting you through, you know, I don't think that would get me through, uh, personally, but do you think you've just developed this like sense of grit now?
[01:05:39] Our, our, our resilience that gets you through day by day, you know, you're, you're telling yourself every day that I'm doing this because it's important to other people. Is that resilience to you?
[01:05:51] Oisin: [01:05:51] Yeah, I think it's a good point. Like resilience is something that I, um, I, I am personally kind of fascinated by UN [01:06:00] read up a lot about because, um, we, I think we underestimate our abilities.
[01:06:06] Or abilities to go through certain things. Um, and we kind of, I had a, uh, the, this as well, you know, being really honest, um, I would tend to be a bit of a worrier, so I I'd worry about things on a nearly catastrophize things as well. Um, but resiliency teaches you not to, to, to, to put some parameters on that, uh, and, and challenge your well, really is adopted.
[01:06:36] So one thing I've learned and I'm being really honest for someone that's, uh, since the last kind of six, seven months I've been back, seen a counselor, again, not because I'm necessarily in a, in a mentally bad place, but because I felt I needed to learn new ways to look at some of the things I was feeling or thinking.
[01:06:59] And one of [01:07:00] those was that kind of incense of worry. And I, I suppose the pandemic is as exacerbated. . Um, on the, on the environment that we're in, but the catastrophizing. And so one really key thing I've learned in the last six months is to challenge your thinking constantly and go, is it actually as bad?
[01:07:17] Like factually break this down? Why am I thinking something Stokely elevated or are worse than it actually is? And it brings you right back down to go. And actually, you know, it's not, it's not, it's not as I think it is. Um, I can, I can, I can get through this. And I have gone through a lot before, and we are now at this place where, um, w you know, it's kind of like a perfect kind of storm now in many ways.
[01:07:44] Cause it's a, it's a difficult time for, for, for turn to me in the sense that it's hot, this massive demand on us over the last 12 months because of bricks and mortar have, uh, uh, services have [01:08:00] kind of curtailed and, and everyone. Has gone online to look for mental health support. So, um, at one point there was a 386% increase in the level of people looking for counseling on turn to me back kind of April, may of last year, um, because it's provided the services for free.
[01:08:20] Um, some people donate, but a lot of people just can't. Um, um, because fundraising has been impacted because it has, because you're not doing events or you're not, you're not, by the way you will be before. Um, and maybe companies are not offering as many grants as before it's in a place now where it's funded by the state to do so much when it can't do as much as it needs.
[01:08:48] So that there's a funding gap, which creates a lot of worry and a lot of anxiety as well at the moment on a resiliency yet teaches you to go rice. You know, we can do this, [01:09:00] we'll get through this. We need to get a plan. We need to. But it's equally very hard as well at the moment to do that. So it is, it is a sense of worry, uh, being really honest and, and there's, there's this degree of anxiety as to where the next six months.
[01:09:15] So the next 12 months will be, Hmm.
[01:09:18] Noel: [01:09:18] I think that something, um, Chris actually asked earlier of, of like, are there things that we can do when someone's in that place? And I was talking about the things that we can have already in place of just in that are in, that are just common. Um, I think that resilience is a, is a massive thing that I talk about because it's something that I come across a lot, obviously with people that I work with and I've just seen a general life, but it, and it always amazes me.
[01:09:44] And I think it's an it's, it's fantastic thing that the humans have. I don't think it's appreciated enough, frankly. Um, I've just the resilience there of the amazement that is resilience of the human being of, of, of a person that [01:10:00] is their, their soul and their mind is just being tormented, but they just keep going on to the things that you can actually, we can absolutely absolutely do to strengthen that resilience, to get us through you, you talked about at the very start of.
[01:10:12] I'm busy. I've I'm you said I'm okay. The stuff going on, but I'll kind of keep going and getting through and getting through this trust and that I will get through the, the difficulty and the hardship. That's that's right in front of my face now. Um, but you know, it's, it's teaching does it, it doesn't have to be this massive, um, thing that we do.
[01:10:32] It can be very simple little things that can increase our resilience, because it's about what's in front of me this, okay. What do I need? And asking that question. Okay, what do I need to get me over there? Doesn't have to be directly something directly, you know, um, in front of us, for example, you're, you're sitting there now and you say, okay, what, what can we do to get turned to me through this?
[01:10:56] The first thing I'd say to you would be, how about we get you in the good place? [01:11:00] Because if we get the person to go place, the stuff flows from there, Um, and even if something doesn't happen and if we do need to deal with something with something that we don't like him, the worst case scenario, well, isn't it better that at least you're in there, you yourself are in a good place and therefore you're better able to deal with that then as well.
[01:11:18] We don't want that to happen, but if it does, at least we've done the work that we're doing, the work content originally to, to help us overcome this challenge. But if we don't overcome the challenge, at least we still don't that same work will transfer into being able to accept and embrace and kind of find some sort of reconciliation and contentment with, okay, this is the way it's unfolded.
[01:11:40] And it's things like meditation, things like going. I say, people are sick to the teeth of hearing this, especially from me going for a walk, but like, you know, it's all these different things. Painting, drawing, listen to a podcast, listen to some just random, like just. Funny videos [01:12:00] on YouTube for the net for the next 10 minutes.
[01:12:01] It's, you know, choose what you're going to look at. And it's doing those things to get you to that point, because it's like, how do we get resilience and resilience? It's not something you just get out of the shop at Butler resilience, please. Um, like it's something that you get after you kind of are as you get through the things.
[01:12:21] So it's saying, okay, well what will help me get through this day? What will help get me through those moments? Google it, check it out, ask a friend here. What do you do when you're feeling shit? I do. Okay. That doesn't suit me. What do you do? I knit, what do you do? Like paint. What do you do? I just walk around with, you know, kick the football off the wall, whatever it is.
[01:12:39] I think that's massively important. It's resilience. Do
[01:12:43] Chris: [01:12:43] you think a proxy for kind of coping mechanisms? Because I see resilience as, um, it's twofold. Like one it's done regulating the nervous system to the point where you're at, like, you know, your, your, wherever your equilibrium is right. Uh, wherever you feel stable enough and [01:13:00] that's different for everyone, but too, it's like, I know from experience when ocean is in the thick of it, and you've got like, you know, perhaps some funding issues and maybe like you have some sort of difficult situation with a user or, you know, the code is breaking or whatever it all happens at once.
[01:13:22] But when it rains and business pores, it's just, you know, it's kind of just what happens. So is it not also in that moment, just being able to learn to survive it, you know, to be you you're when you're, when you start a business, you're just going to experience chronic stress. I don't know anyone who has started a business, um, and it was made it successful that hasn't had periods of chronic stress.
[01:13:48] So, is there an element of resilience? Um, I suppose it's a question to you, both, which if you, ocean, is there an element of resilience for you? That's being at the new and [01:14:00] knowing you're like, this is a super tough moment, but having the experience are having the know-how are perhaps a tool are having someone to pull you out that you can say, yes, this is why I coupled it with optimism, because when you're at your lowest, you know, you have to get through it.
[01:14:17] So in order to get out of it, you have to be able to look forward to the future and say like, I'm optimistic that this will end this feeling and this perception I'm having right now, that this is, you know, the worst moment of my life or it's all going to shit, has to end. And there is an optimistic conclusion to this.
[01:14:35] Is that the way perhaps you get through these situations?
[01:14:39] Oisin: [01:14:39] Yeah, I think like optimally, like you've hit a car point there. Um, Chris, like optimism is a key key trait I think, of, of, of resiliency and, um, on as well. I think in terms of now it's a framework that I've learned to deal with these situations because you're right.
[01:14:56] When, when it rains, it pours on this being, um, [01:15:00] does it does, it does certainly, you know, like I said, the front end of tar to me is all fantastic. And the amount of people that are being helped and touched, but there, but the background reality is that, um, and it's, and it was public, you know, there's no lying from this.
[01:15:15] If there was articles released last week about the funding issues that are, that are going on, there are they, they, they, where that's going to come from next and there's two ways you can respond to that. And it is all about response. I think resiliency is a key, a key part of that is about how you respond to reply to that.
[01:15:33] And it is a series of choices. Um, and it's something that, that I've learned over the last six months that I'm practicing a lot more, uh, is choice theory. Um, and, uh, I've really invested some time in trying to understand lesser William Glasser's. Yeah. Glasser's bunker by choice Syrian, you have certain choices in your quality circle and on the choices that I'm making an hour or better than they would have been six months ago because of this.
[01:15:57] So I'm choosing now to go, right. Here's [01:16:00] where we are. Here's where we need to get to, how do we get there? Um, and you don't have all the answers. I think that's what anxiety and worry is about. Oh, Jesus. Like, how are we going to do this? And you start to conceptualize catastrophize in your own head, which is not real.
[01:16:17] So recognizing there's others that can help with this. And there's a great team and there's a great board and I've got a lot of great supports around me, my wife, uh, my kids, you know, my, my, my family they're huge support. Um, Nope. So breaking it all down and going, right. What's the better choices to get through this on who can help on how do we do this?
[01:16:41] And at least let's get some kind of framework that we'll put some shape on all those worries and all those catastrophic ways of thinking, which really massively, massively helps. I might say it out to anyone who, um, who's listening, who, who is a natural worrier or not for links. Anxiety that goes, [01:17:00] uh, with our thinking is to, is to, to step back and practice that to read Gloucester's book is for me, that was hugely life changing.
[01:17:10] Um, practice choice theory on, on, on, on try to put a bit of framework on your thoughts.
[01:17:16] Noel: [01:17:16] It's, it's, it's a, it's an. Really glad you said the pockets. I think there's two copies of it behind me, cause I always have one for myself and I've given out to, I don't know how many people, um, and there's another one there for, because I'll be gone, I'll be given it to someone else.
[01:17:29] Um, uh, like it's, it's, uh, it's an amazing, it's a really, really important kind of concept. It's one of the newer concepts of psychotherapy, psychotherapy, and psychology of this kind of, there's a, there's a real common sense approach to it. I, I always felt it was something that I, I really gravitate. It kind of rings true to me because it's something one of the.
[01:17:48] Two things that I'll always look at very early doors with people is ownership and choice. It's taking ownership of things, not in a nasty enough in a blaming way, but taking ownership in an exciting way, team are, hold on a second. I [01:18:00] actually have a role in what I do because I can choose for the most part.
[01:18:04] Of course there's always exceptions. And I think that's one of the misconceptions, I think people guess, unfortunately. And when I understand that, um, about choice theory, is that what you're choosing everything is like, well, no, we're not choosing absolutely everything, but I suppose there is, we can choose how we react to things.
[01:18:19] You know, we, we talked, um, we're passively last week and he talks about, you know, choosing your suffering and last part. Um, I think it's like something like that situation there, the way I look at it would be okay, I've got this really difficult situation in front of me, whatever it is I can choose to either change kind of what I talk about.
[01:18:39] Like a pivot point. I can either change it and fix it or accept and embrace it. Um, quite often, we're, we're, we're often into that kind of change and fix to help, help, help straight away in the do kind of, and sometimes it's actually, do you know what? Just take that step back, accept and embrace where you're at, the situation that's in front of you.
[01:18:58] It's also important [01:19:00] that we do things to help ourselves accept and embrace that. And quite often, by taking that step back, it relaxes us. And when, as I said before, as if we're in a good place, that's when we see, Oh, others didn't notice that over there. I was like, yeah, you were never going to see that when you were in that anxious and really tight moment.
[01:19:17] So it's doing those things to get yourself back. When we step back, there's a lot more doors, there's a lot more possibilities and we're at our best then. And it's, as I often say to people, just coming back to what Chris was saying about resilience. I think that there's a few, there's lots of parts to it, but it's doing things to help us build resilience.
[01:19:36] It's like the, the evidence that the resilience comes, what I find is the resilience comes from being true, the, the chefs and bring through the situations and then those things to help you through the situations will help you then get a resilience because they help you get through them. And then the resilience comes in then as well.
[01:19:51] But it's something that I often say to people. I always look for the evidence. Where's the evidence, where's the evidence that this negative thing will happen. And if it's there, that's [01:20:00] actually really good because we're able to kind of go, Oh, that's where it happens. Look. Yeah, exactly. So well, does it usually happen that vote?
[01:20:05] How about we change it around or always look for the evidence? Cause there's often evidence of look for the evidence. So I'll say, I'd say to you kind of now, or she is like, look for the evidence because there's a party of, can I get through this personally, professionally, whatever it is, but certainly personally kind of get through this.
[01:20:20] And it's about saying to you or people that are in that situation, look for the evidence because I. And Dan tears, you have so much evidence there to suggest you show that you are able for something difficult. The specifics are quite often irrelevant. It's the principle that, can I get you something, something difficult?
[01:20:40] It doesn't matter really what it is. Can I get you something difficult? Look behind you. Look, what's there. Yes, I can. If I didn't get true something, ask why did I not get through that? Because it all it's learning from that, you know, learning from the things that are there. And even again, it's, it's the choice of, of, I often say this to people and they look at me sideways coming on.
[01:20:59] Did you ever [01:21:00] thank your depression? I was like, what? The F what? I tank my depression forum at that difficult time. I was like, how is life now? After getting through it? It's like, that's pretty good. Like, yeah. What, what is it called? Cause I did all this and I went to that and I went through it. Yeah. But why did you do all that stuff?
[01:21:14] Oh yeah, depression. So it's by accepting and embracing of depression by accepting and embracing our anxieties and different kinds of challenges. That one things that we go through. I think it. We can find a piece on a calmness. It's still there. It's still a pain in the ass, but it's, it's definitely something that can, it can help.
[01:21:32] Chris: [01:21:32] This is my theory is important things because it helps you conceptualize, like in the moment someone came to me and said, you need to accept the fact that you feel this way. I tell them to fuck
[01:21:39] Noel: [01:21:39] off. Exactly. Yeah. But
[01:21:42] Chris: [01:21:42] through, through numerous conversations, you're able to conceptualize that pain and go all.
[01:21:47] Yes, I can reframe it. And you know, perhaps look at it from another angle because that's all books will do. You know, you talked in the intro to activities, episode that. Much of what we understand to be true [01:22:00] is based on conjecturing, on available evidence and you know, most everything else is just theory.
[01:22:04] But these theories do have, you know, it's no, you shouldn't put your head in the sand and say, I'm going to avoid reading about this stuff. Or you're talking about choice theory here. And you're like, Oh, it's a bunch of fucking baloney. Um, yeah, maybe, but you know, a lot of that baloney has in certain moments for me has gotten me to a point where I'm like, ah, but look at it from this angle.
[01:22:23] And there are a thousand other angles I can look at from all thousand of those angles. It'll help me to conceptualize what I'm going through and give me that boost to help me or explain it or to be intelligent. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. I think I want to really, um, ask, uh, about, um, some of your users OCI.
[01:22:43] And some of the people who have utilized the servers have turned to me because it's intriguing. And I think we have given them a kind of a, an exposition of what turned to meat is, but perhaps not enough of water does, I think the best way to discuss what it does is through the stories of people who have passed through your, [01:23:00] um, digital doors.
[01:23:01] Um, so, you know, in our, on our prep meeting, we discussed, um, uh, uh, a couple of, uh, stories and there were a number of shows, I think, um, a role, would you mind telling us a couple of those stories, perhaps give people a picture or a flavor for what turn to me can do.
[01:23:18] Oisin: [01:23:18] Yeah. And I, I liked that a phrase digital doors and going to, going to use the, um, but what it is, it is it's, it is like a digital door way in.
[01:23:28] And so who are the kind of people that come on, um, and that helps people maybe frame where they might be out. So we've had, um, I mean, I just read this morning actually. So my brother sent me, um, After every session, after every counseling session, they, the service user can, can rate the counselor in the session, on the site, and then they can leave a comment.
[01:23:51] And some of the comments are really a really powerful, but, but there was one comment there this morning that jumped to me where the person said they were really skeptical about coming online. [01:24:00] Particularly they use the word, the phrase I am so instant messenger. So they chose obviously to, to, to, to do type based Josh counseling.
[01:24:10] So they were very skeptical about, um, they've been through their own various forms of, of, of support before what they found is, um, amazing. And they th th the sheer fact of being able to type, they said just allowed them to articulate things they had never done. So before face-to-face, and they, they, the only thing they said, which is kind of funny was that they, they took them.
[01:24:37] They were typing so much sometimes that they felt sorry for the cancer on the receiving end, just seeing them typing. Um, and, and I thought that really articulates what the site is about just being able to come on and just type all these things that are in your head, and then release that into, into, into a professional who can help you break that down.
[01:24:58] Um, [01:25:00] and in terms of putting, putting life to the people, I mean, on the, on the website, there's, there's, there's Vincent and Shauna who have, uh, um, uh, put their very personal stories up, um, uh, on, on, um, a story that really stands out for me from last 18 months was, um, a referral from, from, from someone I know, not really a referral, more a question about their, um, M D of a, of a very successful Irish, uh, company, uh, had a son that was at home.
[01:25:35] Um, kind of an 18 year old son that 18, 19 years of age that was, you know, was bad written home, written a room written, I suppose they tried a lot of different kinds of interventions before. And, uh, th th they've made some degree of progress, but not a huge amount. And so the, so the lease young guy was very disconnected at this kind of material time.
[01:25:59] And [01:26:00] I suggested that they go on and on book online counseling that was really easy to do. They could go direct. They didn't need to be referred. You can be referred on GPS, do refer, but you can go direct and on and on. And, and they did. And they connected with, um, with a counselor that I think they just created a.
[01:26:21] A connection there. And there was a real understanding of what this young man was going through. And, um, and he got really, really powerful, uh, help from, from turning to me. And a number of months later, my friend rang to say, look, you know, that the family con tank turned to me an offer for WhatsApp in here because it wasn't, it wasn't a solution.
[01:26:43] It was a start, but it was a way that this person time. So disconnected was able to connect online with the counselor and get that level of help to bring them forward. And I don't know what the next step of their journey was. It, [01:27:00] I didn't want to ask and nor do you necessarily always need to know, but just to know that they were, they were doing a lot better.
[01:27:08] Chris: [01:27:08] Yeah. I think the barriers to entry are quite high for, for mental health services. Okay. Now you talked about the, the confusion that many people have asked me about this, you know, like I feel this way, what the fuck do I do about it? Yeah. Where do I start? I don't know where to start. You know, I always started with, um, talking to my parents and talking to, um, the Dean of my course and she referred me to therapy.
[01:27:32] Um, so that's always started, but I still don't know about the whole landscape for, for mental health services and what the HC provides, what it doesn't provide. But do you, do you think that because the barriers to entry for turned to meet you've, you've gotten rid of them, it's free, so you can come on and if you don't feel like seeing someone in person, they can just type, um, and I think you have other group therapies too, where they can perhaps see each other.
[01:27:56] I'm not, not true and correct me if I'm wrong there. So the barriers to entry are [01:28:00] gone, therefore they can comment and try it avail of the service and then like, Oh, I thought that this might be the wrong nomenclature to use. What do you think you're like the gateway drug or the vector for people to engage in introspection further down the line.
[01:28:14] Like it's okay to talk about this. Like I have gotten over, I've pushed through, across the chasm. I can go on now to talk to my family are, you know, physically see someone or perhaps be referred to a psychiatrist or go see my GP, or, you know, there's a multitude of avenues you can take, um, from our, uh, you know, the B with the bounce off point being turned to me.
[01:28:37] Oisin: [01:28:37] Yeah, I think it's, uh, it's, it, it, it services like turn to me at break down those, those barriers, um, and help, uh, help people to, to get an intervention immediately. And, um, an almost like anonymously to a certain, I mean, obviously certain details are taken and particularly for counseling because [01:29:00] it's a medical services, a number of details they can book, but largely speaking, you're not, you're not.
[01:29:05] You're not physically, um, you don't have to show your face or, you know, you can choose a username that's unique to yourself. Um, and it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a powerful start to somebody's journey. And I think everybody or anyone listening, I hope that, you know, one thing that, that they could take is that mental wellness is a journey.
[01:29:29] Um, and, um, a bit like Ireland will be great when we're finished, but we're never really finished. So just to understand that we are on a spectrum on mental health and mental wellbeing are, are kind of critical interventions at a particular time in your life that can maybe prevent a mental illness or prevent something much more serious down that spectrum.
[01:29:55] Um, so if you're not comfortable to go and see your [01:30:00] GP, or you're not comfortable to book a counselor on. The various different professional body sites where they're all listed or go to Google and look up some details about the different interventions that you can get. We'll then start somewhere that you are comfortable with.
[01:30:18] It may be the case that you, you only need a couple of sessions, or it may be the case. You need a longer journey. Um, that's not really for, for you to it. That's for the professional to decide, um, you know, no, let's speak to this, that, that they will guide you. They're not going to guide you down the wrong path.
[01:30:38] He said, think they will. They won't, um, put you in. You need to, you need to present yourself in some way or else. What could be an early intervention on a preventative step? Could sadly become something a lot more serious or could really impact on. Your own life on your own ability to move through life, enjoy life or [01:31:00] succeed at whatever you want to succeed on.
[01:31:01] So, so while you do that to yourself, when there are options,
[01:31:05] Noel: [01:31:05] Hmm. I think it's, it's, it's trying to sorry to, to value it to, and to show and put value on not just the service, but put value on people's health, particularly mental health as a section. But I think it's, like I said, put putting value on things and, and showing how we can put value it, like, you know, look at Bitcoin, Bitcoin, just what didn't exist.
[01:31:32] It didn't just kind of get value people it's only valuable because people value it and the same morning, the same with these kind of things. So it's, it's important to actually that we actively put value onto that. And, you know, we put value onto ourselves and we show that. So it's like, you know, if you had a friend.
[01:31:49] That talked to you quite nicely, that was there for you that helped you at that project for a while. The project good, you know, decent meals brought, you know, takeaway as well. You'd say that friend really [01:32:00] values me. I was like, yeah, exactly. So instead of that, being a friend, you be that person for yourself to value yourself.
[01:32:08] So start there, take ownership in that and then valuing the health and value in the mental health as a society then. So we look after ourselves where we can look after sales. I'm in a good spot. Now I was in a good spot today. So neighbor, do you need a hands? Now you do grant here. It gives a heart, gives you a hand that will help that and put it's growing.
[01:32:24] And it's trying to value the services then, because if we value that as it, our health as a whole, our physical, physical, mental, emotional, Help them we'll value those services because we want to get to that balance to place for the most part there's ups and downs. Of course there are for overall we're able to deal with those things.
[01:32:44] And so there, it kind of, it brings our value onto something that provides that. Um,
[01:32:50] Chris: [01:32:50] I think we're looking at this too late, you know, in, in the, you mentioned the word spectrum or an eye, uh, it kind of pisses me off the way we collectively [01:33:00] refer to mental health methods now means someone's
[01:33:02] Oisin: [01:33:02] sick.
[01:33:04] Chris: [01:33:04] And whereas from my perspective, mental health is the same as health health doesn't mean the hospital, you know, we have connotations of ill health.
[01:33:13] When you talk about health, health is like when you're, well also, so. What I try and talk about more often than the sick side of the spectrum or the unwell side of the spectrum is the wellness side of the spectrum are how are you maintaining that equilibrium of wellness in your life? And, you know, I talk about that at a lot with people in terms of, um, you know, actions that you take and habits that you build and tool kits and whatever you want to call them.
[01:33:42] But more often than not, we refer to it in a kind of reactionary way. I have depression, or this is the unfortunate part about, you know, suicide or suicidal ideations, as well as that. It's the stage that people, uh, you know, feel like, Oh, this justifies, um, [01:34:00] me talking about it now. So I'll, I'll tell someone, no, you tell someone way, way, way, like tell someone when you're feeling low mood for a couple of days, this is how, when, so this is why we ask the question, how are you?
[01:34:11] What I hope will happen from repeatedly doing this? Um, is that. When you ask someone, how are you? And you don't respond in a way that you think is, um, you know, uh, proper communication or that they haven't fully answered the question, then just delve a little deeper. And if they, if you can get people to the point where they're saying, Oh, I, I feel, you know, I'm a bit anxious at the moment.
[01:34:33] Okay. That's also in the mental health bracket, you know, like, you know, people can develop trait, anxiety from just feeling nervous for awhile and, you know, tradings, it can be, can become chronic anxiety and you can develop Agra phobia and panic attacks and all sorts of stuff. So you're like, this is what I say to people when they asked me about the pressure and kind of like you have a to okay, but not to the, um, the amplification or the level that I have experienced it.
[01:34:59] So [01:35:00] I've expressed like you have a, you wake up and you have a really bad day. You have a shit morning and you feel really good just, and you feel crap and you know, everything's going wrong for you. And you just feel very pessimistic and you know, you just want to go to bed or everyone has days like that now.
[01:35:14] Multiply that by a hundred success of days, that's what I experienced at times, you know, or multiply that feeling, uh, you know, uh, by 10 and you know, that that's kind of harrowing level that people with depression, um, experience, but what I would love to get people or get people to, to build this vernacular of, um, you know, it's not just meant that I have this overall health, because I think methadone misnomer, everyone take a shot.
[01:35:41] I say that word a lot. Um, but I feel like it's just health. There's no dualism between mind and body. It's just, you know, I'm one being and all of these things have to be in tune and people, I think at the moment, just go, okay, I have to be clinically diagnosed by a [01:36:00] GP to, to tell my boss, um, or I have to be at the stage where it's completely chronic.
[01:36:06] And I, you know, I'm Agra phobic, and I can't get out of my house to talk about it or because we feel embarrassed, but. We need to start talking about it way earlier on like when you're down in the pub with the lies and we're having the crack or whatever, don't feel like you're someone, just one of my friends yesterday told me that they didn't want to tell me, um, how they were feeling, because they were like, Oh, you know, I, I don't want to tell you, cause I don't want to burden you with it.
[01:36:32] Like what the fuck? Like I'm doing a fucking podcast about man. Like I like the one person you're supposed to be talking to and that's overwhelmingly the case in the majority of cases, especially man, we were like, Oh, I won't say anything because I don't want to bring down the mood. No, you don't want to bring on a movement.
[01:36:52] You know? Like if you're, if your friends, you love each other, basically, you know, you're supposed to talk to each other
[01:36:57] Noel: [01:36:57] about this stuff. That's a sure way to quite often [01:37:00] actually bring up the mood because we start talking about, and then you'll see here at Johns Hopkins. I didn't want to bring it. I didn't want to bring the mood down, but this is what's going on.
[01:37:07] And then Mark, over there it says, so that's been happened to me for ages and then we have the chat and then you all walk out of wherever you are kind of going fucking hell, I feel great after that, then again, yeah. You might wake up and feel a little bit low the next day, but we're starting that talk and then excellent kind of points to what Chris is saying there.
[01:37:25] And that's something that I really tried to drive home because you're quite often get people and they understand this. Of course, I really do. Um, like we'll look for what kind of tips or tricks have we got or just to get to kind of keep me going, you know? And it's that kind of just patching ourselves up, but what I'll often say to people it's about living your life a certain way and dipping in and out, like.
[01:37:49] It's not just as Chris said, reactive, it's being proactive and it's just becomes a way of life. It's not, I'm doing this for kind of tick to feel, um, to get better after, [01:38:00] because I was sick or, you know, it's just, I, I do this to kind of just to feel life and to enjoy the life and, and, Oh, I'm feeling a bit depressed or anxious today and that's okay.
[01:38:10] That's part of that. And, and we keep rolling through that, um, that there's obviously massive work goes into, has gone into creating this, um, there's massive work that goes on to try and to try and manage it because like you said, it at Porsche and you have a full-time job already, and you're just in your, in your wisdom said, Hey, it gives us another massively challenging full-time job on top of my already full-time job.
[01:38:34] And having a family is on that. But where do you see service going over the next few years and kind of what's ahead of us.
[01:38:46] Oisin: [01:38:46] Yeah, I think, um, It's definitely not a solo journey. You know, there's a, does a huge team of people involved and it's just want to really call them out the board of turn tomatoes. There's a fantastic board [01:39:00] there of which Dermot and myself are part of. Um, and it does a fantastic team in turn to me and on volunteers and kind of an army of people that are there and supporters, you know, called the, the HSE that have been, that have been a supporter for, from, from 2013 and a believer, um, w where, where it goes to now.
[01:39:21] And next is, I mean, I suppose we'd love to secure the longer-term funding to continue the 12 and over counseling. Um, that was a pilot and it's been a good pilot. We'll get that progressively funded longer-term and it's always been something that Dearman and I have wanted to be able to offer Germans.
[01:39:44] Got. Teenage kids. And I, and I've got, you know, very young kids, but w what adolescents now are going through very difficult challenges. And being able to help them online is, is, is, is somewhere that [01:40:00] we we'd love to be able to do longer term, but that needs to, to secure a way forward for that. Um, I think as well, turned to me, uh, you know, as a, as a service can, can grow beyond, um, just the, the 26 counties.
[01:40:15] I mean, it's, it's, it's global in many ways, but what the core services that are funded for our lender provided to our ends and it could grow, uh, there's no reason why there couldn't be a turn to me.edu, for example, um, there's a brand new platform coming and that we got funded funding from the HSE and from Twilio.
[01:40:38] The the, the tech company to, to build. So a massive amount of money and effort on Tosh has gone into building a brand new platform that's coming in the next kind of four to six weeks. That really is a game changer. I mean, this has been built over the last year. Well, from user experience to feed back to user testing, it's a [01:41:00] platform for the future for the next 10 years, um, on, on a community-based platform for the next 10 years.
[01:41:06] So that's coming soon. Um, the service has gone to grow on, reach more people. Um, it's going to get to more adolescents. Um, there's a family based service for, for couples and for parents as well. Um, I mean, ultimately I'd love to see it become more of a, kind of a. A lifestyle thing is, you know, to your point, Chris, about mental health, like we, we hear mental health and we go, Oh, mental health and it's, it's not like it doesn't mean mental illnesses.
[01:41:38] It's more about good choices and education and, um, and connecting with other people and learning and developing. And I'd love to see, turn to me become that, that it's, it's offering the services, but it's also offering the information on it's bringing it all together. And maybe there's there's webinars with people.
[01:41:59] Maybe [01:42:00] there's more podcasts, connections, like, like this podcast, um, on this more nutrition and exercise and on a whole bunch of variables that make up mental wellbeing and lifestyle wellbeing that can help people improve all of that and bring in some meditation, a mild mindfulness connect, all those dots because right now it's.
[01:42:24] Bringing services, which are very important, but they're, they're only part of the puzzle. So there's a bigger puzzle that we need to kind of crack. Um, and they're like, they're just the, kind of the, the talks that go, that I have. And quite often, particularly the board will, will say quite, quite often to, to, to Dermot.
[01:42:43] And I will look, we need to step back and focus on does the phrase that we use stick to the nation, um, cause you, you can, you can get, you can think all these big, great and grand ideas, but, but you have to be able to phone just as well.
[01:42:57] Noel: [01:42:57] Like I said earlier, I'm a dream or [01:43:00] butcher Noah like to take, um, what happened in 2003 and to honor that legacy.
[01:43:07] So I often say to people like if something difficult happens, whatever it is, try to honor that as best you can. I, my God, Savannah debt is an honored your brother and an amazing way. And like you said, I'm a dreamer. I can keep dreaming because look what you've created. And. Like, was it a hundred thousand years as you said, so you multiply it up by say two, because those two people, a person will have helped her, you know, someone else and, and adjust.
[01:43:35] It's just exponential. It's incredible. The reach that you have done to Ireland and to the world. So, um, it's absolutely, it's an amazing what she's of Dawn under, like as a family discolored, you just can be incredibly proud. Um, something that we do, uh, the end of the show is, um, promote whatever's there, but I think a good way to promote, [01:44:00] turn to me like it promotes itself, but I think a good way to promote turn to me would be, Oh, Shane, I'm listening in I'm 19, 20, whatever age I am.
[01:44:11] I'm not feeling great. What do I do?
[01:44:17] Oisin: [01:44:17] Yeah, you just go on to, to turn to me dot a ye. So it said that the number two, um, or just Google that, and it comes up and you can create a free account and, uh, your, your then insight into the dashboard of the site and to say there's different options up in the top menu. There's there's group support. If you want to do that, there's a there's articles.
[01:44:38] There's taught catcher and then there's one-to-one counseling, um, which is free of charge. Um, if you can't afford or if you can't afford to pay something towards dash and it is an offer profit, obviously. So, you know, there's, everything's reinvested back into services and, and it's really that simple.
[01:44:56] Noel: [01:44:56] What is we'll have, um, we'll have links to, to the site [01:45:00] in the show notes. So that there'll be definitely, there are touched. Um, the last thing we're going to do is the fairly quick fire round. Just some, some tea I've got, we've got 10 questions and, and as quick as you can fairly quickly answer. So
[01:45:15] Oisin: [01:45:15] I'll beat around the Bush
[01:45:19] 10 questions. Come on five seconds on the clock. We only know y'all need quick fire questions. Come on, pick up the .
[01:45:29] Noel: [01:45:29] People may not know, but you're a DJ in your spare time. So this is the first question. Digital arena,
[01:45:38] Oisin: [01:45:38] digital, digital. Yeah, I didn't learn. I didn't, I didn't, I sadly didn't learn the vital
[01:45:45] Noel: [01:45:45] this time yet. There were two, your favorite ever rave
[01:45:52] Oisin: [01:45:52] gig. Oh, very good question. Uh, I think, um, chemical Broders no [01:46:00] tough punk in Marley park. I can't remember when, but it was a number of years ago, but it was, yeah, just
[01:46:06] Noel: [01:46:06] that I know it did happen and MITRE when COVID goes away.
[01:46:13] What's your favorite place that you're going to have a point in
[01:46:19] Oisin: [01:46:19] a really good question. Um, I think it will be gone back to, um, Near Reese is a, is a, is a favorite aunt just being, we have to think called a Friday cope where a group of us meet up in town and whoever's there goes, and we just kind of move around town and have a few pints that's great crack. And everyone takes the piss out of each other.
[01:46:43] So just to be able to do the Friday club back in like Dublin town is just a little bit biased. We're from Dublin, but like, it's a great, it's a great time to be in and hop around and have a few pints in
[01:46:53] Noel: [01:46:53] that's a special place for sure. Um, next one is named something weird or absurd that you love?
[01:47:01] [01:47:00] Oisin: [01:47:01] Um, I think probably the is it's, wouldn't be absurd, but it might be it's a little bit niche, but I kind, kinda, I love really hardcore old school, kind of German technical.
[01:47:19] Noel: [01:47:19] We all paused when you said hardcore there. Thanks for that. Um, the next one named something you couldn't live without.
[01:47:28] Oisin: [01:47:28] Coffee
[01:47:31] Noel: [01:47:31] solid answer. If you were the last person on earth, what would you still do?
[01:47:39] Oisin: [01:47:39] Um, I'd I'd still, I'd still probably go drinking with myself. I'm I'm okay. With that.
[01:47:49] Noel: [01:47:49] Embrace yourself. That's important. If you could broadcast a message to everyone on earth, what would it be?
[01:48:00] [01:48:00] Oisin: [01:48:00] I really think it's, it's just chill out a little bit more. Um, w we're we're moving too fast and, um, we need to just step back and chill out a little bit and enjoy life a little bit more.
[01:48:15] Noel: [01:48:15] Absolutely. The next one. What advice should young people ignore?
[01:48:26] Oisin: [01:48:26] I think convention, like don't live up to convention, um, be your own, decide your own future and shape your own future. And don't fall into the common conventional traps that people said. I'd for young people and don't allow, um, dream. I teach this to my two young kids dream bake and, um, there are, there are no impediments to what you can achieve.
[01:48:52] Noel: [01:48:52] She's your here, look at, look at the evidence of that. What you've done it it's incredible. Um, if you feel overwhelmed, [01:49:00] what do you instinctively do?
[01:49:04] Oisin: [01:49:04] Okay. I talk with my wife. Uh, she's my she's my, uh, professional and my wife and my friend and everything rolled into one. We have this kind of phony setting here where this is a little box room that I'm in just to kind of. Bring the listeners in, and there's a couch bed, but sort of comfortable couch bed.
[01:49:23] So she sits there and I sit in my chair and we do this thing where the rice what's going on with you right now, it's generally a lot more with me than it is.
[01:49:33] Noel: [01:49:33] It's fantastic to have that last question, finish this sentence. At the end of the day, it all comes down to,
[01:49:45] Oisin: [01:49:45] I think, connection and true that connection, friendship, love, you know, that nothing else really matters at the end of the day. Everything else is really kind of transient, but like [01:50:00] connections or Nash, um, you know, phrase that really jumped at me recently was, um, there's two times the people die once when they die.
[01:50:08] And once when you stop talking about them,
[01:50:12] Noel: [01:50:12] Oh, she in scholars.
[01:50:16] Chris: [01:50:16] Oh fucking hell.
[01:50:21] Noel: [01:50:21] Thank you very much. And thank you to your, to your family, um, to, to Cormac to your dad, Tom. Um, it's incredible work. This is are down on people. Please listen. Like the, the effort that this, all of the, not just ashamed, but all of them put into this. It's it's a mammoth task. Um, so do what you can to, to promote it, to, to talk about it together, to get its name out there more and more, or she in scholarship.
[01:50:45] Thank you very much.
[01:50:48] Oisin: [01:50:48] Thank you. Pleasure.
[01:50:54] Once again, thank you so much for listening to today's episode of the one DMC podcast on a massive thank you to OCI [01:51:00] and as well for coming on and telling his story. If you want to check out what he's doing over at turned to me, you can do that by going onto turn to me dot I E. It's a great platform, especially for, you know, talking about your ratios or talking about anything you want, and that might be ailing you in your life as always as well.
[01:51:14] You can follow us on instagram@onedmcpodcastandcheckusoutonourwebsiteatwwwdotonedmcpodcast.com. That's all for us for this week. See folks next week.
