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Transcripts may (read: definitely will) contain typos. We use software to transcribe the show and American artificial intelligence is apparently not intelligent enough to understand the Irish accent; go figure!
In time, if people read these, we'll have them fully proof read by human intelligence and corrected for grammar and syntax.
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[00:00:00] Chris: [00:00:00] Hello, and welcome back to the one DMC podcast. I think today's guest will be the first to admit that titles and categorizations make them feel uncomfortable. Let me read an excerpt from his website. Pat is a high-performance coach. Helping people reach new levels of purpose, passion, and fulfillment, using movement and mindset, his retreat workshops and online coaching programs bring clarity and consistency to people from all walks of life.
[00:00:22] Pat system show people to dissolve their old disempowering patterns and beliefs, allowing space for new frameworks to emerge. This is the path to villi of 2021. There've been many paths or should I say versions of path? There was the path, the South facing wrestling fanatic. There was the aspiring, but shrinking business mogul, Pat, the personal trainer path, the successful internet fitness entrepreneur path, the spiritual seeker pot, the public speaker.
[00:00:45] And now Pat, the performance and mindset coach. If you're the type of person that scoffed at these types of coaches and speakers, maybe give this episode a listen, Pat is in some charlatan. He'd do a first to admit that he's only a few steps ahead of you and keeping himself mindful, fulfilled, and performing at a level he is [00:01:00] comfortable with.
[00:01:00] When you go through life, being a skeptical fellow, as I have you realize that nobody has all the answers. Most of what we know to be true is merely conjecture based on the available evidence and everything else is just theory. It's better to be partly right and wholly wrong. That's the old saying goes and I find great comfort in meeting people who cultivate intelligent questions rather than willfully disseminate bullshit for cash or pockets.
[00:01:21] I liked Pat a lot. A lot of it, our dialogue today is me selfishly asking him to give me his perspective on things I wrestled with like a free seminar with him. I love her refined. His ideas and ambitions are they're simple and build from experience. You start it over three times in my account, each time building from his experience of failure and chipping away at those disempowering patterns, he mentions on his website, bio.
[00:01:42] This is why I take a seminar or spend time with him. He's lived with the advice he has skin in the game, and he's just passing on what he's figured out for himself to allow us to come to our own conclusions. Remember, there are only our own conclusions. There is no right way of living life, no moral absolutes, red pills.
[00:01:59] Now, wherever you [00:02:00] are and whatever you're doing, what passively listening to us? I hope you're well. And if you're not well, that's okay to do get through it. And before we jump in and let reminder, the show is free for you, but it's expensive as fuck for me. I greatly appreciate it. If you could leave us a review on Apple podcasts, following interact with us on social media, or even better share the show with someone you think might like it sharing is the best thing you can do.
[00:02:22] Attention is currency in the media these days. And the more attention we get, the more likely the show will grow and we can reach the people we need to reach those people who are struggling with their mental health. And just need to hear that. It's okay to talk about it. Now, please enjoy the show. Jump
[00:02:36] Pat: [00:02:36] out the bed, entering the currency to send to the
[00:02:43] a morning, couple for the soul
[00:02:48] Noel: [00:02:48] parts of Philly. You are very welcome to the one DMC podcast. It's great to have you on. Um, I will be honest. I, I knew your name, but didn't. No a lot [00:03:00] about you. And then I, as I kind of, as we did do our research, I realized that I did know lots. Well, I knew bits about you and I knew more and more, and there was lots of stuff I would see within myself and my own kind of journey, my own kind of story.
[00:03:15] But we'll, we'll get into that over time. But the first question does, I'm going to ask you today and it's something that we're trying to do with the podcast, but this is, this comes from, I suppose, my own work that I do. And there was something that as a therapist from the very start for every single session that I've I have ever had and ever wheelhouse I'll always ask the same question and it's because I want to get people getting in, getting in tune with themselves a little bit more.
[00:03:42] And I wondered if it was just an Irish thing, but since moving to Australia, it's I know it's not, it's, it's an international thing when we kind of, we say hello in lots of different ways. I may ask her, how are you, you know, how you gone, I'll do. And the different ways of saying it. But when we answer these, you know, the generic, um, replies back of grant, Oh, [00:04:00] are you sorry?
[00:04:00] Or even happy or sad that they're still quite generic. And then my worker eventually banned those words. Um, so we kind of get a bit more of a detailed answer. Cause I think it's, it's, it's important to, like I said, to bring that kind of self-awareness. So, um, after all of that, this is the question part of Ellie.
[00:04:17] How are
[00:04:17] Pat: [00:04:17] you? I knew that was coming. Um, I'm, I'm grateful. And not in a cognitive sense. If you'd asked me that a year ago, that would have been a cognitive answer, but I feel grateful. Uh, at the moment I was running a course this morning for a couple of hundred people meditate and then journaling. And I just felt this sense of they were all saying, thank you.
[00:04:43] And I saying, I felt really grateful that I get to do something that I enjoy and people feel grateful to me. It was. So I really felt that. So I feel grateful. Um, content base level is just a lot higher than it was again, even a year [00:05:00] ago in terms of just general happiness contentment, and I feel, Hmm.
[00:05:12] Hmm.
[00:05:17] I fit on purpose. Um, I'm working on a few projects at the moment that are breaking my heart in some ways, but, uh, they're all serving a bigger purpose. So I feel like I'm a mum purpose, I think grateful content and on purpose. Thank
[00:05:30] Chris: [00:05:30] you. Do you think that, um, the way you've answered that is perhaps different than the way most people would answer the question.
[00:05:37] And can you tell me why you've been able to answer the question in that way?
[00:05:41] Pat: [00:05:41] Um, so funny two years ago, I was in New York with my friend, Holly, who was like a Yogi and it was, it was all a bit strange. I just met this girl at a conference and she said, Hey, if you're ever in New York come visit, that was the conversation that I don't think we had a conversation beyond that.
[00:05:57] And I went and stayed with her and she'd asked me [00:06:00] every two hours. How do you feel. That's how I'll feel good. She'd say good's not a failing it's Oh, you're right. I feel grand. Grand is not a feeling. I say, I feel fine. She's like, what is wrong with you? And I thought she was a hippie. I was like going home to the airport.
[00:06:13] And the day I was leaving, I said, Hey, how do you feel? She's like, I was being sarcastic. She said, wow, great question. And she like checked in with herself and I was like, what is she at? You know? And, uh, it kind of, it sat with me for awhile. I was like, why is it so hard for me to express how I feel and not go straight to what I think, uh, anytime I'd say what I feel like say, I feel like an intern after, like, is a thought, right?
[00:06:36] It's not a feeling or I'd say I just couldn't be present to myself as to how I felt in the moment. And I felt awkward doing that. And, um, a lot of the work I've done in terms of inner work or self work has been cognitive. And so I've been in my head a lot over the years, so I'm still working on that, but I'm trying to become more emotionally aware.
[00:06:55] Um, because I recognize that if I don't know how I feel, I can't know what I need. [00:07:00] And, um, Three years. I forget, what's the word I didn't fulfill about my own needs. And so I looked for other people to fulfill about my needs and I did destructive things in my own life, addictive behaviors to try and get out of fittings that I didn't like them.
[00:07:17] So I just recognized the importance now of emotional awareness for myself.
[00:07:21] Chris: [00:07:21] Yeah. Bodily awareness. Do I resonate with a lot what you're saying about, you know, kind of, um, I think you and I are probably overly cerebral. Um, I would, I would classify you as a seeker. Let's say, I think you, um, from your story and what, from what I can tell you are looking for answers as a, and as are many people at Bush.
[00:07:40] Um, I think both you and I try to go very deep to find those answers and to try to do a lot of things, to figure it out. Um, I think, you know, why a lot of people answer that question with a default answers because a lot of us live life in kind of a slipstream. And it's, you know, if you use that kind of sucking analogy where you're, you're behind the, [00:08:00] um, you know, front runners.
[00:08:01] You can S you can stay in your slipstream for a very long time, and it's quite easy to do that. Uh, but when you have to, you know, uh, try and connect bodily connect or connect with how you actually feel that which often sits in kind of the God or the body, or it's not always kind of a Headspace thing, you have to, you have to get out of that slip stream.
[00:08:19] Um, and it's, you know, I could see you when you're answering a question. Um, it was less of a struggle than most people would have still struggled for you. You know, even someone who has been on this kind of path to understanding for a very long time, and I still struggle with it, which is the reason that we want to kind of continue to ask this is because no one asked me this question.
[00:08:38] Um, at the start of every session, I hate it because it's the one moment that I don't have a, an answer. Um, you know, I spend a lot of my time, um, Trying to appear intelligent when someone trolls you out of your slipstream like that, even for a split second, you you're away off balance. You know, they've kind of opened the door to kind of [00:09:00] a piece of you that you haven't perhaps looked at.
[00:09:03] Um, but we'll get into all of that stuff. Um, and I think we're going to have a great episode because you have a lot to say and, um, you know, I'm really looking forward to, to hearing how you deal with and how you, um, curate your life, um, to get into a position where you can say I'm feeling attendant, I'm feeling grateful.
[00:09:22] Um, and even that idea of not being cognitively grateful, but embodying the gratefulness and really feeling it because this is something I struggled with that this association between, between mind, body, but we always go back, um, and you know, just that whole fraud in, um, a theological looking at kind of cause effect stuff.
[00:09:43] Um, and we don't want to over-complicate it, but I'd like to look at your. Childhood and growing up in general, I think a lot of the times, um, we create these nice narratives for our lives. And I've noticed that you start your life a lot at the age of 24. Um, but I'd like to kind of figure out going up [00:10:00] to 24, what went into the melting pot for Pat devotee to become the person that he, he, he became.
[00:10:07] Um, so I think there's a theme, um, that I've noticed from, from, um, looking through your life in the way that we have with a magnifying glass, which has been unfair. Cause you don't, you don't get to do that to me, but, um, It fitting in. It seems to have been something that you, um, may not have struggled with, but you've perceived yourself to be struggling with, uh, when you, when you grew up, I think there's an interesting anecdote you told where, um, let's say there's a hundred people who were into your secondary school and, um, everyone except you and another person had gone to the same primary school.
[00:10:43] So there was difficulty there in, in fitting in. Can you talk to us about what that meant for you growing up, um, and perhaps how that's manifested for you as an adult?
[00:10:51] Pat: [00:10:51] Yeah, for sure. Um, I'm excited for this cause I feel like we're going to get to some stuff I haven't seen in myself yet. So I'm excited. Um, [00:11:00] I grew up in Limerick, so I started school a little bit earlier than most, and I was the youngest in the class.
[00:11:06] And so I was bullied from the get-go and that definitely shaped how I saw myself. And I think. I've come to understand that most of what we think we're thinking really we're just remembering. So we're just replaying these cycles. And so my cycle for my childhood was I don't fit in and that was in primary school.
[00:11:25] Um, we moved around a lot, so I think we lived in four or five houses in Limerick before we came to Galway. And then we moved around in Galway, couple of different houses, um, and starting school again, uh, in primary school, moving to a new school, again, felt like the outsider, then go into the secondary school with there was a different secondary school.
[00:11:42] It felt like the outsider. And to be honest, in my teen years, looking back, I started to, you know, I'd say anyone, look, your name would say, and people have said this to me since they've said, I knew you in secondary school, I always thought you were popular and you were, you fit in and stuff. But I suppose it speaks to the way we see ourselves versus how other people see us.
[00:11:57] Um, I was the [00:12:00] oldest in the family, so I don't know what that means, but I'd be blocked depending on. Yeah, I definitely, um, I definitely just. Yeah. I always felt like it didn't fit in. And I was looked outside of myself to kind of figure out why that was. And I always sort of looked for external validation and approval and acceptance and love.
[00:12:20] Well, what I thought was love and I looked to change myself and I, I think most of what I did open until recent years was from a place of wounding rather than a place of worth. I was put it that way, that there was an emotional wound there. I was trying to fail and I chased everything under the sun to try and fill it.
[00:12:36] Um, now I, I like to think, or at least I hope most of my actions are coming from a place of, I like myself now. And so I get to choose what I want to do rather than kind of unconsciously go after things that are there to, to fill this wounding. Um, but that was, that was my early, my early life, I suppose. Um, my dad got me playing sports.
[00:12:55] I didn't want to play, which I probably held some resentment against. And I felt like I didn't fit in with team [00:13:00] sports. That was more of it. Um, it wasn't something I wanted to be doing. And, uh, I think in my teens of home martial arts, if I'm weight training, that gave me a lot of confidence and that's what led me on the path that I'm on to this day probably.
[00:13:12] Chris: [00:13:12] Yeah, you strike me as a kind of a sensitive soul. And I don't mean that in a derogatory way, I would classify myself as quite sensitive as well in that I think external stimuli affect me a lot. Uh, people's moods affect me, you know, I would say I'm empathetic, but sometimes being empathetic means that when you go into a room and there's a bad vibe in the room, your vibe completely turns upside down.
[00:13:34] You know, it doesn't matter how you felt going in before you went in, uh, your priors don't matter. I just go into a room. If it's a bad vibe, I'm in a bad mood and I can't get out of it. Um, but would you say you were a sensitive kid in that? You know, you know, I think a lot of life is about perception and perspective.
[00:13:49] I don't know if you've ever read meditations by Marcus already is, but my one takeaway from, from Marcus earliest was much of life is about perception. And if we can change our perception of things, [00:14:00] we can perhaps change how we live our lives or how we feel about our lives. Certainly. I think you were a sensitive as a young guy.
[00:14:07] And do you think it affected you adversity?
[00:14:09] Pat: [00:14:09] Uh, I was sensitive for sure. Um, someone explained this to me recently or kind of gave me a feel for it. And I'm not overly familiar with the, the field of work, but it's kind of around highly sensitive people. And I was explaining to them that I can do well one-on-one with people and I can do well standing on stage in front of a thousand people, but I have a really hard time in a small group.
[00:14:32] And he said part of that is that you can sense people feelings. And so when there's words coming through that are out of congruence with how they feel, you can sense that and you feel uneasy in yourself. So when you know, someone's out of integrity, you can feel that equally. I'm sure I might've been integrity loads as well.
[00:14:47] So it's not like I'm just figuring out what everyone else is doing wrong. Um, I thought that was interesting. There was a couple of things I kind of shared with this friend of mine and he said, Oh, that would point to you being highly sensitive people. Um, I don't know that I've, I [00:15:00] think I'm overly empathetic.
[00:15:01] Um, I'd almost feel I'm selfish at times. I was thinking that I think of myself too much and I don't think about other people's struggles and challenges enough. Um, so I don't know if I put myself in that bracket. Um, but yeah, I do remember my dad said to me as a kid, you're too sensitive. You're like your mom or something like that.
[00:15:17] I do remember that statement sticking out as a young lad, um, because my dad will be quite stoic maybe, or kind of, uh, archetype of, uh, Irish male father, if there is such a thing. Um, but funnily, as I've gotten older, I've really seen the value of the way that he is in that way. Um, he really, you know, I think a lot of kind of stoic types, you can kind of shut them down and shut the emotion.
[00:15:41] The lack of emotion has been a bad thing, but I've actually shortened recent times I've really come to appreciate a lot aspects of him.
[00:15:48] Chris: [00:15:48] The purpose, that resilience, I think, um, it's a little bit lost in our generation. I sometimes think that, um, We have skewed too far on the side of, um, you know, the work-life [00:16:00] balance is something that's on the forefront of everyone's mind nowadays, especially people of my age and younger and you and I are similar in age, I think.
[00:16:07] But, um, but I think my, certainly my parent's generation, there was, um, an intensity to the way they, you saw a work and, um, you know, the way they approached work because they needed to, and they needed to be tough and he needed to be more resilient. You know, we don't have, you know, in the Western world, certainly, certainly Irish people haven't had a world war to deal with and we haven't had to prepare ourselves for real battles.
[00:16:34] So I think, um, we don't have that sense of toughness. And I think sometimes we look down on people who are traditionally seen as stoic or tough, but it does serve a purpose I think. Um, and sometimes are very, um, I've very strong purpose. Which you mentioned your dad and, um, certainly for me, and I think a lot of males, your father is kind of a, uh, an integral figure in your life, [00:17:00] in all of our lives.
[00:17:01] Um, sometimes it's by absenteeism sometimes it's because they're there too much. Um, but they're always a figure. Um, but was your father amongst a number of people that perhaps influenced you, um, as a child and, and growing up and your behaviors and you know, how you, uh, perhaps dealt with life, um, are, you know, was he alone in that?
[00:17:25] What did you look at him as someone that's, you know, you modeled yourself off? Uh, I suppose I'm asking the question. Was there a number of people or was it, was it, did you look at him a lot
[00:17:33] Pat: [00:17:33] specifically? I would say I rebelled against them until I was, you know, 24, 25. I went the opposite way. Uh, I didn't value the things that he valued and I kind of, I just rebelled against, I felt like he was trying to put me in a box.
[00:17:47] And so, um, It would be very different in terms of just general personality type CB kind of accountant and value, security, and safety, and pretty much values, you know, a [00:18:00] straightforward life. And I think when I was younger coming from that place of lack, I wanted to know everyone wanted to be popular. I wanted to be successful.
[00:18:08] I wanted to be seen. And he was saying, just keep your head down, have a small circle of friends. Like again, does it get older? I'm like, Oh, there's so much value in all of that. So I don't know that I was looking to him for guidance in terms of how I should be living. Um, I dunno where I was getting that, to be honest.
[00:18:23] Uh, but the, the, the stoicism thing, it's just coming to mind. I share it with you. But before I forget, uh, I was talking to him yesterday. I was talking to a doctor the other day and she was telling me when she was on her placement, she was in London and she was out, um, On the streets just doing, like, there was a lot of criminal activity and she was involved with some of that stuff in terms of going when people were stabbed or people were injured in, in crime scenes.
[00:18:47] And, um, she just talked about how traumatic that was in some ways and just something she was never trained for. And we were talking about trauma and, you know, the role trauma plays in everyone's life, be it micro trauma or big trauma. She [00:19:00] hadn't said we had to go and deal with stuff. And then you just kind of go home and you, you weren't, uh, sort of taught how to deal with that.
[00:19:05] And I shared that with my father and he said, well, my sister went off to Africa years ago and she was helping, uh, uh, what's the word? Amputate legs and stuff like that. And like that there was no, uh, there was no trauma release or anything like that after it was just kind of get on when I put the head down and keep going.
[00:19:21] So yeah, there's definitely changes up in there. No,
[00:19:25] Noel: [00:19:25] and that's what you were saying earlier. I think between what Chris was saying that as well, like there's absolutely a place for both and that's something that I try to get across with, with, in my work and. And just in general, because it's something that I needed to do.
[00:19:38] So before I did all my work on myself and kind of went through all the shit that I went through, I was very, you know, in the, in the body, people that can't see me, I have my hand on my chest and my heart and my, my stomach. And that's what I imagined. It could be go into the body, the, of the, the kind of the reactive and not going away.
[00:19:56] And you can get the other side of that, where we're just open their heads, [00:20:00] um, very kind of ones and zeros, very, just kind of perfect, not, not letting us fit and letting ourselves feel the emotion. And what I find, uh, is what I can, what I, what I found for me anyway. And, and I've seen it in a lot of people then as well, is that it can be quite useful to, to be that kind of stoic, to be that kind of, um, uh, there's a process kind of there.
[00:20:22] So come in with a head, but I find it easier to go down into that emotion. Like, I'll go if I want to cry. I'll absolutely turn on the first 10 minutes of, of the, of the Pixar film. No problem. Cause I like to cry. I like to feel those emotions and feel that, and it's actually the seven year anniversary of my father's death today.
[00:20:43] And I'll think about him and I'll let you know, because I want to cry. I want to feel those emotions. I want to feel emotions the same way as kind of, you know, if I, if I said to I'm sure there's people going, why would you want to feel that? And I was like, well, it's the same kind of, okay, we enjoy laughter, but we can enjoy those different things because I know I'm going to [00:21:00] get them is their emotions.
[00:21:02] But what I find is it's, you know, just to come back to the, to the point there is, is it's really useful to have that stoicism have that kind of objective, you know, because no, we're not ignoring not, we're not doing the, the good old Irish thing of art suppress those feelings, shoved them under the carpet and never to be seen again.
[00:21:19] No it's saying, look, I'm going into a situ, especially when you know you're going into a situation. But if you, what I find is if you have this kind of thought pattern, this, um, The what I call them safety mechanism in your head already. Even if it's something that you know you're going into or you're, it's just something that randomly happens to you.
[00:21:37] You're able to say, right, I'm in this situation, this is really difficult. I need to pack the emotion, this.com compartmentalize our parking on a shelf for our, you know, another thing to help with that is visualize it and have your place. So I'm going to park that there because I need to deal with this
[00:21:51] Pat: [00:21:51] and
[00:21:53] Noel: [00:21:53] deal with what you need to deal with.
[00:21:55] And then when you come back to it, you're in a better, I find your afternoon a better place. I think it's, it's [00:22:00] getting the balance of the two instead of just being in one or the other. I think it's a really good thing to be in that balance of the two like that you use that because it has been for the generation done.
[00:22:10] Cause I've mentioned them say my dad, it was just, just get on with us. You know, you have to just get on with it. Um, I think it was maybe it's too far that way, but we can absolutely go too far the other way where it's just don't feel that emotion because I think you can get lost in us. Um, yeah, that's, that's something that I've kind of found, but just to come on back to that, and this was, I am a therapist, so it's possibly that it's like a therapeutic question.
[00:22:31] Have you ever looked at and thought about kind of, who am I trying to, I suppose, not necessarily because you weren't fitting in, I was trying to discover who you are. We are trying to prove yourself to someone or in doing things that you're, you're, you're you're doing or getting that attention and that way
[00:22:52] Pat: [00:22:52] yeah.
[00:22:52] I've looked at like say young and models of kind of, you know, what patterns are you playing out? And I would definitely, I [00:23:00] recognize this thing of, if I was to look at the people that I wanted, the approval from the most, when I was younger or the almost went the opposite way, they're always popular and they were cool.
[00:23:10] And I, um, To this day, I can see those patterns playing out and be like, Oh, not getting acceptance from them and have to catch herself and say, Oh, that's 10 year old Pat there. That's looking for that. So it's not 33 year old man, Pat, you know, but I'm just not familiar with Peter Levine that does the trauma release work.
[00:23:29] Noel: [00:23:29] I don't, well, it will be,
[00:23:32] Pat: [00:23:32] yeah, really good. I think it's an interesting kind of, um, it speaks to this thing of like the cognitive versus the, the felt experience, but it talks about animals in the wild. And so if an animal is under attack, fight or flight response happens, it's usually traumatic. And if they get away, once they're safe, they'll walk to the side and they'll have a seizure and it's shaken out that trauma that's in the body.
[00:23:53] It's kind of interesting. Cause they're not, they're not having the emotional release at the inappropriate time they're waiting. And it's kind of like, okay, let's [00:24:00] look after myself here, get it done. And then, and being in here
[00:24:04] Chris: [00:24:04] where you got to don't, we like, uh, I would say. Um, if I'm having a particularly difficult situation, I will, I've learned to be able to remove myself from the situation and then I exercise, but that's the I, the weights or I'm releasing something.
[00:24:19] I'm do you
[00:24:20] Pat: [00:24:20] cry though, when you need to cry? No.
[00:24:23] Chris: [00:24:23] Well, sorry. I'm, I'm a good crier. I cry, um, you know, on cue, but I would say that I don't, um, how would I put this? I don't properly internalize the emotions in the moment when I'm supposed to, you know, this was something that I worked on with Noah was I I've always found it very difficult to feel what I'm supposed to feel when I feel it.
[00:24:46] Like I have a very difficult time when someone gives me a gift in receiving the gift, I will experience the gratitude and the kind of that feeling or the dopamine hit of being given something days later [00:25:00] on my own. It's okay to feel it when someone else is that wrong. I think, I think it's okay, but there's no synchronicity, you know, in the moment of, um, Oh, thank you for what you've given me.
[00:25:11] Like I'm the worst person to give a gift to you because I don't have that kind of, uh, elation and, you know, the normal response is, Oh, thank you very much or whatever. And I'm kind of like, Oh, thanks very much, you know, but I re I'm really grateful, but I just can't express it in that moment, I guess. Um, but I think, you know, that I noticed that I have a puppy and he, and when they have an emotional release, they shake.
[00:25:34] So I was thinking through this the other day going, do I do that too? The way when I feel a bit stressed, I normally go, you know, uh, hit the weight room article for a run or something. I think it's a similar type of emotional release.
[00:25:49] Pat: [00:25:49] I would look at my twenties. Drinking was a problem for me in my twenties.
[00:25:52] It was out in the past every weekend, getting hammered, blackout drunk. And I look back now and I say, what's that about what that was. [00:26:00] Not aware of my feelings, not willing to be with my feelings, try to escape my feelings. And so I always assumed I'm excited for the weekend with the site memory was stressed and overwhelmed, but cognitively I was saying, I can't be stressed and overwhelmed.
[00:26:11] They have a good life, three, our levels of stress and overwhelm. So it was a personal trainer data with couple of hundred people a week who had their issues to come into me. You're almost like a therapist in some ways. Um, so I'm like, okay, if I had a more healthy, uh, if I was able to express my emotions and feel my emotions back then I probably wouldn't have had to run away from them with alcohol.
[00:26:29] So, um, yeah. Yeah. I
[00:26:31] Chris: [00:26:31] would say you're probably in that parasympathetic state. Too much too often, I guess, not, not going sympathetic enough. Um, but I don't, I don't want to belabor on Charlie, but does it a couple of little questions I'd like to ask? Um, it interests me that you said you perhaps rebelled against your father.
[00:26:47] Cause I would've, I would've, um, envisioned that you would have gone towards him, but was there someone that you looked to as kind of a hero figure or were there multiple people, whether that be in Ireland or [00:27:00] abroad growing up that you would say this can be fictional or otherwise, and that you would have said, I'd like to model myself on that.
[00:27:05] You know, we hear a lot of people now saying I want to be the hero of my own movie. I think Joe Rogan piece, but was there, was there people or someone in particular that you were trying to model yourselves on?
[00:27:13] Pat: [00:27:13] It was professional wrestlers. I was obsessed with professional wrestling. That was kind of my, my escape.
[00:27:18] And that was, I guess, um, the archetype that wasn't bullied, the guys that were, uh, You know, larger than life. It was the kind of standard gladiators. I started watching gladiators again recently. I'm like, that's the best TV show ever. It's amazing. Actually, watching, watching some of those old shows, it really brings you back and you're like, Hmm, I should been thinking about this.
[00:27:38] Recently. We tend to have like this handful of memories that we always go back to when you think about different periods of your life, but then you hear a song and you're like, Jesus, I completely forgot about those couple of months of my life, where I was obsessed with Nirvana rage against the machine or whatever it was.
[00:27:50] But, um, yeah, I was obsessed with wrestling. That was my thing.
[00:27:55] Chris: [00:27:55] Hey guys, sorry to interrupt. I know this is slightly annoying, but [00:28:00] I got a question. What is the point of a podcast like this podcast about mental health? Why are known? And I doing this well known, and I want to reach as many people as possible.
[00:28:09] You want to let them know that talking openly with your loved ones, about how you feel, your worries. Your fears is key to finding peace of mind. And staying healthy. So how can you help us please take out your phone right now and share this episode with one person, just one person you think might like it.
[00:28:25] It would really, really help us out a lot. Now back to the show who was your
[00:28:31] Pat: [00:28:31] favorite wrestler? I'd like to Jeff Hardy. I think that was
[00:28:37] Chris: [00:28:37] before they got sued. Were you upset when you found
[00:28:39] Pat: [00:28:39] out it wasn't real? Um, was I upset? Well, it's still, it's still, have you ever seen that clip? It's still real to me, dammit.
[00:28:47] Um, funnily, actually again, I was doing this one at some of this young ins. I was on a podcast before where he looks at your childhood and talks about some of the patterns and something that emerged from me. He said, who are your favorite wrestlers? And [00:29:00] it was, there were always the ones on the fringe, like the outsiders, the slightly outsiders.
[00:29:04] And again, I think I saw myself in them the whole, you know, and you recreate these, these things and throughout your life since guys like Jeff Hardy and yeah, yeah, yeah. So, uh, That's
[00:29:13] Chris: [00:29:13] funny. I think the exact same way, like outliers are always the people I most resonated with like counter-culture any, anything counter-cultural I was like, yeah, fuck that.
[00:29:21] I want to be counter-cultural. You know, I remember I would
[00:29:23] Pat: [00:29:23] say it, I remember the day. So the cool girl in my class said, Hey, have you heard about this band? The Arctic monkeys? I was like, ah, fuck. The Arctic monkeys are dead to me.
[00:29:33] Chris: [00:29:33] Yeah. I think that's, um, I would have experienced the same thing. Yeah. And I remember going to NOLA first. It's funny how your scripts change? Even in short periods of time, like, uh, I've been with Noah for five years and I would've been, um, in finance, the word contrarian means something different than in the rest of life.
[00:29:49] You know, a contrarian finance is like kind of Warren Buffett or Charlie Munger, or one of these people who thinks outside of the kind of normative range and they make decisions. Um, I'm an investor. [00:30:00] So I try to find what's called alpha to make money. Basically you have to think a little bit different than other people find a niche.
[00:30:08] And I would have gone to NOLA being like, I have a difficulty because I am always. I remember using the analogy to know that I see my life as like a river, and I'm constantly trying to swim upstream as everyone else is going the other way. Um, but I'm always going up the stream. I'm trying to go against the current constantly because I want it to be different.
[00:30:28] And the, one of the first things we started working on was, you know, is it okay for me to do something that everyone else is doing? You know, just because all of my friends and the wider groups now listen to Arctic monkeys, do I have to stop to Eric to monkeys? Just cause everyone cause it's gone mainstream.
[00:30:43] Um, I think a lot of people do experience to that because you know, it's so we're all the same and everyone wants to be a little bit different than what they were or that's why we're so tribal, but we can, we have access to so many different tribes now that we can pretty much go anywhere. You know, you can say like that.
[00:31:00] [00:30:59] I told the story in a previous podcast app. I used to watch a lot of, um, TV shows that were based in California. It was one of my dreams was always to go and live in California and a lot of them long longboarded. So when I was a young teenager, I just, I used to skate and I gave up skateboarding. I was like, I'm longboarding now.
[00:31:15] And I got along board and I, I remember buying one from a company in New York and then telling me I was the first person to buy it. I was delighted with that. I think I could actually still have the email somewhere on my, my old Hotmail account. I was like, yes, this means I'm the only person in the country with one of these boards.
[00:31:29] So I'm, you know, quote unquote, uh, different. Um, but you, you add kind of your late teens decided to, or maybe closer to twenties, you decided to go to, um, to San Diego for a period of time. I think it was to pursue martial arts. Can you tell us a little bit about, about that time, um, and perhaps what you learned from that
[00:31:48] Pat: [00:31:48] experience?
[00:31:49] Yeah. W when I tell you I was obsessed with wrestling, I was obsessed with wrestling. As in, I contacted a wrestling school when I was 14 or 15 in England, and I said, Hey, I want to become a wrestler. My dad's been [00:32:00] unreasonable. He says, I have to finish school before I can move to England. Like, what do I do?
[00:32:04] And the guy was like, start doing judo because that'll teach you how to fall without hurting yourself and start lifting weights. He gets wrong. And I went into school the next day and like the law of attraction, there's a assigned for judo classes in school. I started judo within a couple of months. I'd won a couple of Irish titles.
[00:32:20] And, um, that was the first thing that really gave me confidence. So started training, martial arts, Ty box in boxing. Um, and then coming toward the end of school, I did my first year in college and I contacted a mixed martial arts gym out in the States. And I said, Hey, um, I do tie box and I do judo. I'd love to come and be a cage fighter.
[00:32:40] It's not really taken off here the way it has over there yet. And some guy gave me a place to stay and the app may work in his gym full-time and so I spent two full summers out there. Had some little fights down in Mexico. Um, the big influence in that period in my life was I met a mentor out there who was a fitness trainer and he was a kettlebell instructor [00:33:00] and he, he was incredible.
[00:33:02] I, he was an amazing guy. He was 10 years older than me, but he was struggling with his mental health, which I had no context for at that time. And, uh, he ended up taking his own life and that kind of woke me up. Um, cause I was, I was doing an arts degree. I had no interest in geography and economics. And so when he took his life, I, um, I said, I'm gonna, I'm going to study fitness on the side.
[00:33:26] That's what I've always wanted to do. What am I, what I'm at here? Uh, so that we reoriented my life, I suppose I went back and studied fitness. And then so yeah, the summers in America were hugely influential in my life and shaped my life really. Um,
[00:33:43] Chris: [00:33:43] I think you failed though, not becoming a restaurant. Is that, would you to consider that a failure in your life.
[00:33:48] Pat: [00:33:48] No, no, no. And I think, yeah, it's the Steve jobs thing. When you look back at your life, you're like, Jesus, everything made perfect sense errors. And, [00:34:00] um, no, I, I look back and it's just, it, it was just like bullied. Yeah. And that led me to wrestling and that was my escapism to the superheros. And that led me into martial arts.
[00:34:10] Martial arts brought me to America. America brought me to fitness, fitness fitness, brought me to meditation, meditation and meditate. Uh, fitness helped me meet my tribe and come full circle. Yes. I have the social circle around me that I'd never thought I could have. So, uh, There was no failures along the way.
[00:34:27] Thankfully, in
[00:34:29] Chris: [00:34:29] retrospect, and hearing people tell 'em they're past that because I once read this book Quaker called Nassim Taleb. Um, he was kind of just esoteric gentlemen in the finance space. And his first book was called fooled by randomness. That was my first encounter into understanding how complex and adaptive the world is.
[00:34:46] And it was my first time understanding what's called a narrative fallacy where we can very easily look backwards and say, this caused this, which led to this, and this caused this, which led to this. And this is who I am today. [00:35:00] I think a lot of, a lot of us spend a lot of our time trying to kind of bring order to chaos.
[00:35:05] No. Um, and I, I asked you, do you think that's a fader because I wonder at the time, did you think it was a fader? I know looking back you're like, no, it could be because it led me to wearing out today. Cause I, you know, both of us, all of us on the, on the podcast here today have failed many, many, many times over, but we can.
[00:35:22] Justify the failure or we can, you know, dwell on the failure, but it's all again, I think it's, it's back to, um, perspective, you know, it's how you look at what's happened to you and you, you definitely from, from what I can hear from your podcast and how you engage with cast, et cetera, you're excellent at reframing situations to the positive, um, you know, anything that you would have perceived as being a negative influence or negative in your life.
[00:35:48] You, um, you talk about enough positively. I've heard you talk about your relationship with your father and saying that the way he loved you, then you perhaps perceive that as [00:36:00] a lack of love. He didn't say it in the way you wanted him to say it, but now you see it as a, as a kind of a, he had his own way of, of telling you, you know, he, can you talk a bit, a little bit about that, about that way in which you, you reframe things and perhaps teach me, cause I'm not,
[00:36:17] Pat: [00:36:17] I don't know if I can teach you well, um, To, to, to be clear on that.
[00:36:23] I'd say there, I can reframe things till the cows come home, but if I was to go back and genuinely go back to being 18 and you were to give me the choice of, would you rather become a wrestler or a cage fighter or be where you are today? And I was hand on heart, I would say today. Um, well I did. Yeah. So, so I, I definitely don't, but, but again, I would have, I would have felt I'd failed at that time.
[00:36:48] And that would have triggered I'm sure some of the following years where it was a bit lost in life and wasn't sure where it was going. And yeah, cause I think all of our stories and our narratives that we have internally are effectively us [00:37:00] writing our future. And then when the future doesn't happen, you're kind of, there's a grieving process there to some degree because you've, it's the death of something you thought was going to be a reality.
[00:37:09] And I think I thought I was going to be a cage fighter, the, um, the, the cognitive reframing thing. I'm writing a book at the minute about the stories we tell ourselves and how those stories impact our experience of life. And so put very simply the way I see the world is that there's a lot of, there's a lot of things happening right now.
[00:37:28] And if you're in pure awareness, you just see everything that's happening. And what we do obviously is we go from awareness of what is to attention on our perception of what is, so we go from awareness to attention, or my attention goes to, what's not working or what's missing or what's lacking or what's wrong.
[00:37:44] I feel sad. And I feel negative because I only see the negative. So it's like, I've got blinkers on and I'm just narrowing in on. What's not working. And my cognitive reframes are my, my attempt is to find, not to look for the toxic positivity and make everything [00:38:00] perfect. But just to find perspective, um, just to go from the, the narrow blinkers on to a little bit of a wider angle and the way I see it is I can look back on anything I've experienced in my life that was difficult and find the positive now with.
[00:38:15] A bit of perspective and would a bit of space from it going forward. As I go through struggle, I don't want to have to wait 10 years to figure out what was the lesson in that I want to do it faster and faster. Um, that's not to say I want to bypass and it's that I'm struggling with. Um, but equally I don't want to suffer unnecessarily.
[00:38:32] So that's kind of what I do. I have pen and paper and I just kind of flesh out these things. Anytime we have a positive memory, we're aware of the positive, but we're on aware of the negative that came with it. Like when we look back to our youth and say, Oh, look, look how great my twenties. I was, I had no stresses.
[00:38:47] There was drawbacks. Then you just don't see them because you're focused on the positive equally. When I look back to the negatives, I'm not where the positive. So, um, pen and paper allows you to find perspective. If you want to do that.
[00:38:59] Noel: [00:38:59] Yeah. [00:39:00] That's a, it's a really important thing to do. It's something that you said there that talks about positivity.
[00:39:05] I'll often say to people, and this is again, it's not anything I really say to people is something that I've found myself and. That's important, but it's that re realistic, more balanced perspective on things. You're not just kind of like, Oh, your, your legs falling off there. Oh, that's fine. You know, just flesh wounds just to the point and kind of sketch it's like, if something's there, I think it's important to acknowledge us and, and you know, what kind of generally needs to be doing, but that's, um, a piece of not necessarily kind of cognitive reframing or whatever have you.
[00:39:34] And I'm, like I said, it's shortening the gap and the distance that lead time from when you're experiencing what's going on and then being able to get through it and get past it and see those, see it in a different way. And it was three weeks before we moved to Australia and, um, the, you know, hadn't actually had no to Galway and the car broke down like Volkswagen golf.
[00:39:55] They never break down. The engine just went on. It totally went on it three weeks [00:40:00] before he moved to Australia. So, so what, what was going on in my head, it was fucking hard. I'm gonna, you know, that Kara was going to be sold to buy a car there. So that's gone and all of these different kinds of things and, and being pissed off.
[00:40:11] Um, and it's important to, like, I knew I was being kind of irrational, but at the same time, there was, there was an element of rationality to it and I would let myself be pissed off, but I knew deep down, like, I always say this to people like this will be something in my rear view mirror. And it will be a story that I'll tell clearly, because I'm telling you on a podcast and I've told it to lots of people, but it's knowing that.
[00:40:31] And that's, that's been a big difference for me. And I think that's exactly what you're, that's what brought that opened it. When you're talking about that part, it's it, the lead time has a lot quicker. I'm going through the horribleness on the it's just it's, you know, there was anger frustration. There was scariness of it, all those things, but I'll all the while I knew deep down on the neath, all that in a couple of weeks, this will be the story for the rear view mirror.
[00:40:55] And it'll be a story to tell then afterwards, I think that's. It's not this blind [00:41:00] positivity, because I think that is being pushed out there unfortunately, and just reframing it too much. Um, and it can kind of keep people on that surface level like that you're kind of, you're missing the field and part, well, that's, that's what I got from when you were talking there.
[00:41:15] Um,
[00:41:15] Chris: [00:41:15] yeah, in the wrong thing. So no by, um, I'm Pat I don't, my brother gives out to me about this a lot. I don't, um, consume any news at all. Uh, because I found that, um, the setting agenda being what it is and negativity bias being what it is. Uh, if I consume too much news, like I did at the start of when coronavirus started becoming, um, you know, a worldwide issue and it was, you know, February, March last year and I downloaded the Ft app.
[00:41:47] Financial times. And I started reading about, because I'm interested in the economics of it. I started reading more and more and more, and I started to be getting into more and more of a negative spiral. So it took me about a month. And then I was like, getting rid of all of that again, am I doing [00:42:00] the wrong thing by hiding away in my cave and saying, okay, I'm trying to avoid that negativity bias.
[00:42:07] And you know, there's this, this, um, reticular activating system. So it's essentially why, you know, if you see a yellow car or someone points out, does yellow cars are a new Ridge, uh, everywhere you look, then there's yellow cars and a new register is because we pay attention. There's, there's so much stimuli we have to, um, we have to, uh, consume and your brain has to effectively, um, digest that it can't consume everything.
[00:42:34] So I'm just like, um, I'm going to avoid the news. I'm going to live in my cave of no news. And I have a filtration system and that's, if enough people say something to me, like this happened. Did you hear about this or enough people text me about it or something I'll go and I'll, I'll actively seek it out.
[00:42:49] Is that the right thing to do or the wrong thing to do? Pat? You can go
[00:42:53] Pat: [00:42:53] ahead. I don't watch the news. I have no interest. I think you'd be crazy to put yourself in a place where you have to unnecessarily [00:43:00] suffer. I think suffering is a part of life. And so I think there will be challenges for us all, but I think the most important thing is to choose your challenges and choose your suffering.
[00:43:07] What's, what's worth suffering for there's inevitable stuff that will come up that will be challenged by that we can't look away from. Um, and that's where the magic is. Viktor Frankl talks about this. He says it's about finding meaning in your life. And you can find meaning in three places through creation, through gratitude or through finding meaning in your suffering.
[00:43:27] Um, so a little bit maybe off tangent, but, um, No, I don't think you're burying your head in the sand by any means. I think it'd be crazy to go on life gives us enough challenge, right? Without us having to put ourselves in the firing line of this stuff.
[00:43:43] Chris: [00:43:43] Yeah. I like that phrase too, choosing yourself for it.
[00:43:45] You know, it's kind of like, I've never thought about it in that way, but that is essentially what I am doing. You know, I choose not to, um, to bathe myself in negativity constantly because I know what it does to me psychologically. [00:44:00] Therefore, why would I continue to do it? I, I have learned to not engage with certain things and to engage with all of the things that make me feel good, or I think this is one of the, there are not many benefits to living with depression, but one of the benefits to living with depression, as you have to kind of figure out what the negative stimuli in your life are, watcher, quote, unquote triggers are.
[00:44:20] And I try to avoid them. Sometimes I go too far and I ended up, you know, metaphorically living in a cave, you know, um, a lot of the times, you know, I'll listen to a certain person and. Take their advice. And then I'll listen to another person in tech, contradictory advice. I mean, ended up feeling a bit lost.
[00:44:37] And I come to the conclusion of, Oh shit. The only, um, you know, justifiable way for me to feel good is to go off into my cave and meditate three times a day and not talk to anyone. But you know, that leads to the chronic loneliness. And, you know, I don't, I need to live in the world. I need to consume the world and in the same way other people do
[00:44:57] Pat: [00:44:57] cheers.
[00:44:57] Um, rather than maybe [00:45:00] what we were talking about before it talking about that in the context of cognitive reframing, we might think of a more of, it's just balanced thinking. So it's balancing out your thinking. So as you say there, um, like everything is suffering. So you recording a podcast might be something you want to do, but the suffering involved with this, like there's, there's, there's having to edit, there's having to spend money.
[00:45:19] There's having to put the fear of imposter syndrome. This is the fear of what people are going to think. There's a lot of suffering and drawbacks to doing this equally there's positives. And that's where the balance lies. Does the positive make sense for me? I think we all have an internal calling or set of values and set of things that excite us and inspire us.
[00:45:37] Um, like I have no interest in most things in life. I have no interest in football, have no interest in most sports, have no interest. And so for me to put those things in my life will be unnecessary suffering. Cause it doesn't add anything to my life. Uh, no that might sound like a DAF statement to say how much I would have to suffer to watch a football game.
[00:45:57] But, um, everything [00:46:00] I do in my life does, I don't want to meditate a couple of times a day, but I see the value. It gives me. So I'm willing to suffer because it is a payoff. Um, I don't necessarily want to put myself out there in a public platform for really killed, but there's a pay off there. Um, so I think again, rather than maybe the reframe idea, we might just think about what's balanced thinking, look about, look like what's the drawback to the thing I want to do.
[00:46:21] And what's the benefit that the thing I want to do and how do they look side by side, if someone's got more drawbacks and benefits. Such as consuming negative media, then it's probably a waste of time
[00:46:32] Chris: [00:46:32] and that's why you do what you do. And I do what I do. So you can continue to give people a voice while I continue to fucking live it by cave, but you've got some really powerful using this word stories.
[00:46:45] Okay. But you know, again, this is the story of her life. Um, some really powerful kind of moments. Um, and I don't know if you, you have ever, um, come across Joseph Campbell's work with the whole [00:47:00] monomyth people piece and the whole hero's journey, but your story is remarkably. Um, uh, it fits in so well to, to that whole kind of circular, you know, call to action and call me back to, um, uh, you know, uh, back to society.
[00:47:17] And you know, you're at, you're in a stage of servitude now, but. Going to Dublin, you tell the story of your first business failing. Um, and I think it's a very poignant story of you coming home, um, uh, 24 for Christmas. Um, and you were, you know, broke, uh, you had created perhaps a persona for others to believe that you were successful, but you knew in your heart that you weren't, then you had a few fairly heavy moments.
[00:47:48] Um, and in the six months that proceeded, it were, were quite heavy. Can you tell us that story and perhaps, uh, you know, what happened in that six month period and how you dealt
[00:47:58] Pat: [00:47:58] with that? [00:48:00] Yeah. Um, the story I've told hundreds of times is the bus story. There's probably other stories before that, that I didn't have the balls to share a few years ago.
[00:48:09] Um, So, I mean, the, the crux of it was I went to Dublin, this insecure young man that said, I'm going to be successful. I'm going to be a fitness trainer. I'm going to be a celebrity trainer. Everyone in Galway is going to remember me like, so you know that story. And I struggled to get a business off the ground up there.
[00:48:25] I kind of led on, I was going really well, put out pictures on social media of me training models who were being trained for free because I thought they'd get me in the newspapers. And that's how you became well-known. Um, so I didn't have any paying clients who was working in clothes shops, so it was completely lost.
[00:48:40] And I think, you know, I've since come to learn that when you lie to yourself and you lie to other people, I think Ken Wilber calls it the story gap, which is basically the disconnect between what I tell you versus what my reality is is that he had a lot of therapists that say, um, your secrets make you sick.
[00:48:56] And so I think there was a lot of that going on for me, but yeah, [00:49:00] Christmas Eve, I came home tail between my legs, cried for three hours on a bus journey, back to Galway thinking of what a failure I was and how I'd let my family down. Cause they'd supported me so much up to that point. Yeah, get me through college and keep me in school.
[00:49:13] I want them to drop out of school when I was 15. My parents kept me there. Um, so I really felt like a failure at 24 to become a back. Um, cause it's, as I was concerned, when I left Goway at 22, it was like, okay, I'm an adult. Now let's go and do this and let's show this from my parents, what I can do. Um, and so yeah, I spent five or six months just walking around the village here, crying my eyes out every day.
[00:49:38] Talk about healthy eggs, oppression of emotions. I probably just got to a point there where the Eagle was gone. I didn't really care anymore. There was nothing. Yeah, they have to protect. Um, but probably to that, I mean the few months before coming back from Dublin, there was a night that I brought myself down through the docks in Dublin and was ready to throw myself in.
[00:49:58] I w walked around [00:50:00] Dublin city for hours one night, just completely lost and isolated. Um, I rang my dad at two in the morning from the docks. I'm just telling them, I didn't know where to go or what to do or where to turn. And he came up to Dublin the next day, brought me out for lunch and tried to convince me to come back to Galway.
[00:50:16] And even at that, I wouldn't go home. Cause I was just not willing to quote unquote, give up on my dream, which was a nightmare by that point. Um, so yeah, I mean, that was the, that was the start of it. And then I talk about, I worked in a pizza shop here for five or six months in Gallway while it's trying to figure out what I was doing next.
[00:50:36] I don't know how often I've told her, but I've I found a physiotherapy course in the UK and I said, right, I can go and study physio next year. This is the light at the end of the tunnel because physios. I kind of guaranteed a job, uh, versus a fitness trainer. Cause it says 2012 fitness hadn't really taken off.
[00:50:53] And I was thinking about physio. I can kind of work with people in a similar capacity, but at least I'll have a bit of job security. I can travel [00:51:00] with it. And so I got accepted onto a job, uh, or sorry, accepted onto a course to study physiotherapy. And that was like the light at the end of the tunnel to get me out of this depression.
[00:51:09] And then the chorus fell through the following week and I was like, Oh, back to square one. And that's what prompted me to start teaching the classes down on the beach. And that was kind of the start of it all. So. Silver strong peach jam beach.
[00:51:22] Chris: [00:51:22] Yeah. Well, I think like I know that, um, you're often forced into a situation where you, you tell your stories, but it is a very, the poignant, um, thing to imagine, you know, like that you pot had gone to Dublin.
[00:51:39] Um, if you're not Irish, like anyone outside of Dublin looks at Dublin as the place where we're going to, it's like the Hollywood of learning, you're going to go there and you're going to get the good job and, you know, whatever live that dream. And that story gap is very powerful. It's one of the reasons why questionnaires don't work is because people, these honestly answer your questionnaires and qualitative studies are often of, they'd have to put in [00:52:00] redundancy into their data because so many people lie about, you know, how many times you actually, as a week five is really two or three, you know?
[00:52:08] Um, but you had, you had. Perhaps created a persona for yourself to live by, uh, you had portrayed it with social media and then it was destroyed because, you know, you figured out that you weren't living that or someone else figured that out. Um, and you, you did what I think most people would do, which is perhaps Walden when it, for a awhile, which is necessary.
[00:52:31] I think there's, you know, every creation requires a sense of, of, of destruction and things that destroy an aspect of you and you then went onto to create something very, very successful. And this is the part where I find really interesting is the proceeding few years, four or five years up until the age of 28 or so.
[00:52:51] Um, you created something that by anyone's definition was successful. So you, can you tell us what you went on to [00:53:00] do from silver strand beach, um, to the, let's say TEDx stage, um, you know, what did you decide to do? What did you envision for yourself and how did it pan out.
[00:53:10] Pat: [00:53:10] Yeah, you've done your research ship.
[00:53:12] The 28, 24 to 28 was like a relentless pursuit of achievement. So it started out fairly innocent with the classes on the beach. Like I turned up the first morning and there was five people that came and trained with me. And that changed my life because I was so depressed at the time. The thought that five people believed in me enough to pay 75 Euro for a month of classes was life-changing um, long.
[00:53:36] And the short of it, I suppose, within three months, there was a hundred people on the beach within a year. I'd opened a gym and brought out a book within four years and had over 20,000 people go through online training courses and I'd done three books and I'd gotten the late, late show, which was always a big thing in my.
[00:53:52] Uh, that was, I always felt if you're Irish and you get the late night show, you've done something. So it's true from the day. From the time I [00:54:00] came back on the bus, I said, well, not maybe not that time. I was in the, but when I started climbing out of the horrors, I started saying, right, I'm going to get to the late, late show some day.
[00:54:07] So yeah, the four or five years in terms of business from five clients to 20,000 clients, a couple of books, but it's TV and radio. We raised a quarter of a million for local charities. We built schools out in Southeast Asia. Um, uh, I traveled the world. There was a lot of achievements, I suppose, if you will, one entrepreneurial awards, everything changed.
[00:54:30] It was a frantic couple of years brought over 1200 people at the different moderns, tough Mudders, all that kind of stuff.
[00:54:36] Chris: [00:54:36] You were everywhere. Passionate. I don't remember. It was like, I'm big into fitness and the whole culture of fitness, et cetera. I've consumed a lot. And you were fucking everywhere when Facebook was very prolific.
[00:54:45] You were
[00:54:46] Pat: [00:54:46] everywhere. I was, I was kind of, I was kind of blissfully unaware of that. It was weird, you know, like there was 200,000 people on the Facebook page, but that didn't really register. I remember once myself and a friend were sitting in a sauna in Galway and she said [00:55:00] 200,000 people, she goes, that's like one in 40 or whatever.
[00:55:02] I can't remember. She goes, she's looking around the, the, and she said there's around the swim pool set. That means there's one person here that probably knows you. And some girl got in the hot tub goes,
[00:55:16] I couldn't string a sentence together because I built this business from hid behind a screen. So I didn't have to go and talk to people. And then once it started getting bigger and I started meeting people, I was like, Oh crap. Like, I'm not an extrovert. I'm not outgoing. I'm not sure. Comfortable in my own skin.
[00:55:31] So there was a bit of growth needed there.
[00:55:32] Chris: [00:55:32] Yeah. You were certainly know because you were doing it all online as well, which wasn't, um, I think influencer culture and not going to think, not that you're an influencer, but that whole culture of, uh, fitness online wasn't super popular. I remember being in first year college and noticing, um, a change in the amount of people going to the gym.
[00:55:54] And I think, uh, like, you know, the brands like, you know, athlete and Jim shark and all that other [00:56:00] stuff were kind of starting out then, um, people were starting to wear leggings like, uh, all the time. This was probably 2000 and, um, 11 or 12 and like fitness culture. Started to blow up really, you know, um, like people used to go to the gym mostly in Ireland for, uh, not for aesthetics, but for a sport.
[00:56:22] Now you went there to keep fit or, you know, there was always kind of a, um, a primary reason to lose weight or to, you know, get explosive strength for rugby or whatever. It wasn't the whole thing of aesthetics. And then this whole aesthetics culture came in. Not that you were, but I was in that, but you were writing that, that fitness wave.
[00:56:40] And that was a very long story called short, but it's important that we do quite a short, because I think that the most important piece of that story is that you, you were reliving perhaps the dream that you had as a teenager. Um, I'm not sure how aware you were, that you were fulfilling that kind of, you know, [00:57:00] it was almost prophetic, um, as a young man that you would want to be successful and get some fame in order writing and you got it, but you, you came to a very interesting realization.
[00:57:12] Uh, 28, 29. Um, and it's a similar reason that realization that I have come to. And that's, you know, the, the, let's say the difference between an external locus evaluation and an internal locus of evaluation and what that means for you. So can you, can you talk about this moment are several moments over or across several meetings with people where you kind of discovered that for yourself,
[00:57:40] Pat: [00:57:40] those different things.
[00:57:41] I mean, there was warning signs in those couple of years where I had like older mentors that I knew that were years ahead of me in terms of things that they were doing, um, in seminar spaces that were on the spiritual journey or the. No people that I looked up to that were saying to me, you need to slow down.
[00:57:59] You're [00:58:00] you're going too fast. You're going to burn out. And me thinking they were naive or they've gotten old and lazy, or they become too domesticated and I'm different. And, um, I think at 28 I woke up and I'd bought a house and a car and it received a certain level of being known. I had money in the bank.
[00:58:18] I had a girlfriend, I had, um, great friends and family. I had a business that, um, interior was the business I was wanted. So I had everything I thought it was supposed to have. And I just didn't feel good. I felt flat. I felt empty. I felt on fulfill the felt depressed at times I felt very anxious about losing this thing that I had gained because when you've not been, you've not been diluted, but when you build something, now you have something to lose and that can be a scary place for people.
[00:58:43] It's kind of like a relationship you've invested in a relationship. And then you're like, Oh, I don't want to walk away from this. I put so much into this. And so I was overwhelmed and, um, I actually went to the doctor to get my bloods done because I was convinced it was a biochemical issue of his experience.
[00:58:58] And because I was [00:59:00] again, cognitively saying, look at my life, my life has everything I wanted. It couldn't be something, you know, it's not external. This is internal, there's something wrong with me. And I thought it was a, so I went and got my bloods done and to be fair to the doctor because sometimes doctors get a bad rap and they say they throw antidepressants at people.
[00:59:16] The guy said to me, you're in this really interesting space where you're not a young, alpha anymore. Who's 22 and equally I haven't started a family yet. So you're in this kind of weird and I've seen it since I've seen guys that are 28, 29. You can get a little bit confused as to what your place in the world is at that time.
[00:59:32] Um, I also went back to psychologists and psychiatrists at that time and it just changed my lifestyle. I made some drastic changes, like a walked away from the gym and just gave that to my friend that wasn't for me anymore. I started meditating, journaling, doing breath work, went back to jujitsu. Um, I just started living for it today rather than living for the next achievement.
[00:59:54] And I let go of, I suppose I let go of, of, of [01:00:00] the need to be seen in a certain light. And that's been an ongoing journey, but it's funny when you say of someone sometimes embarrassing these things out loud, even like that story from Dublin. Cause I feel it to me, it feels so cliche. It's like. So, so many people that came before me that had the same experience of lack of self belief went and achieved things.
[01:00:16] So it wasn't a happy when they teach the thing had to come back and quote unquote, find themselves. But sure.
[01:00:20] Chris: [01:00:20] I guess the cliche is, yeah, like there there's a, you know, a reason why Joseph Campbell stuff is so famous because there's people who resonate with it and they see themselves in it. Like I could actually go through the entire circular journey on your journey if you want it to, but we won't do that because it's, I think it's almost an unitive, but it's not cliche Pat, you know, like I know you've, you're probably sick of telling the same old stories, but you have to tell these stories to explain to people while you have gone on to be such a truth seeker and why you're able to speak the way you're able to speak.
[01:00:52] It doesn't happen by chance that you have to go through certain things you have to kind of reach the abyss or the Deere [01:01:00] of your life. I think in order to be able to. Figure out that certain things don't work for you, perhaps if you're, um, you know, seeking validation externally, uh, it will get you so far in life, but you know, Watts at the top of the mountain, when you get there, there's no more mountain.
[01:01:18] You just have to sit there. You know, I think there's that old or the cliche of, you know, enjoy the journey, you know, up the side of the mountain, because, you know, once you get to the top, you know, what are you going to do? Find a higher mountain. Um, and a lot of people get to that point and they get there at various stages of their lives, but there's a lot of young people, you know, that will look at the Pat from 24 to 29 and they'll go, that's what I want.
[01:01:46] They won't peer inside. So it doesn't matter how many times you tell the story. It's important that you tell it because you're reminding people and there are people that will continue to do this. You're reminding people that yes, go after [01:02:00] it. Like I wrote a piece like a kind of a blog post or whatever for our website, and essentially expose that idea that if I was to go back and talk to my 21 year old, 22 year old South, who was incredibly ambitious and, you know, money obsessed and, you know, wanted all of these things that were perhaps external, you know, I think I thought I was doing it for myself at the time.
[01:02:26] I wouldn't say, Oh no, don't do that. You know, you'd eventually figure out that, you know, you want a very simple life and you actually want to, um, add by subtraction or, you know, whatever. I'd just probably say, you know, knock yourself out. You know, you need, you need to do it because if you don't do it, you're going to spend the rest of your life thinking about it.
[01:02:43] And that's an unfortunate part of growing up, I guess, you know, and you, you say that there you've noticed a lot of men that are. 28 29 30 that are kind of at that stage in between being young, alpha, and eventually having a family. I reckon I'm probably right. Smack bang in the middle of that because [01:03:00] I spend a lot of my time, uh, confused and, you know, trying to figure things out.
[01:03:04] And I look to people like you and, um, I look to different, you know, philosophical figures and contemplative to different speakers, you know, different writers. And there's a lot of varying advices, you know, uh, I'm trying to assimilate all of that advice and, you know, trying to go my own path of self discovery, I guess, which you are also on.
[01:03:27] I don't think either of us would ever be off that, you know, trying to figure it out is essentially what we spent our lives doing. But you, you, you breezed over two important words and they were psychiatrist and psychologist. Um, can you, if you want, can you tell us perhaps how that, or how you, um, what experience you had with both of those and, you know, did you end up.
[01:03:50] Taking medication. Did it help you? Did it not help you? Um, did you experience talk therapy? You know, what happened in that period of life for you to, [01:04:00] you know, come back to a place of, I feel automatic equilibrium now,
[01:04:05] Pat: [01:04:05] finally when I had the gym. So this has gone back two years before that. So this is probably 26.
[01:04:10] One of the girls working for me, drove me to a psychologist or psychiatrist. I can, one of the ACEs, I can't remember which it was, but, uh, she drove me out there and she says, you need to get help. You're just like, you're just completely on edge. And, uh, he sorta told me you've got general anxiety disorder or whatever else, but I never formally get a diagnosis, but, um, I just packed it.
[01:04:32] I didn't go back to him. Um, I just kept going because I think sometimes you just have so many times again, you look back and you're like, Jesus, I don't need it. I was thinking this morning, of course, I went to years ago and they were doing Tai-Chi outside. And I said, no, I'm going for a few beers. Instead.
[01:04:47] I love to do some Tai Chi now, but, or like the years ago at a cacao ceremony. And just thinking of these hippies, that drinking hot chocolate, give me a beer. So like, it comes to you when you're ready. Right. You have to like, kind of [01:05:00] like, like you said, that you have to make your mistakes and you have to, you have to fall over yourself a few times before you're ready.
[01:05:05] So then at 28 I went to, I think she was a psychologist and a psychiatrist, if I'm right. Um, I just went for a couple of sessions with her. Um,
[01:05:18] I wasn't overly at the time. I wasn't overly impressed with her, but again, in retrospect I look back now and I feel like I wasn't ready now, prior to that, maybe it was her, uh, approach. Yeah. How much of it is for the psychologist or psychiatrist to meet the person where they're at versus, um, And maybe she did maybe, maybe I just wasn't ready again.
[01:05:43] Like I look back now and I see why she was doing what she was doing, but I think my cognitive part of me was trying to figure out what she was doing by. She gave me a hug and a pedo. She asked me my mama, why she tell him about my mom? Why did she tell me, um, you're defending yourself, probably was in hyper [01:06:00] fight or flight mode all the time, completely switched on defense mechanisms, rare in their head.
[01:06:05] Um,
[01:06:06] Noel: [01:06:06] sorry that, that's what I kind of looked at to, to transfer that in, because I know there's a lot of people listening to this, trying to get that kind of, I suppose, to relate to that. And that's what we were talking about earlier of being stuck up in their head and where we're not near the body at all that, you know, with the emotion and that kind of way, because we're why it's, it's a protection mechanism and you're in the moment or, sorry, in reflection, you can kind of say, I thought it wasn't good for me at all.
[01:06:30] Or, you know, and we can look at this. It's the same thing with alcohol, with drugs, whatever we do, their coping mechanisms. And you were, you were trying to get from a to B, you were trying to get from 24 to 28. In fairness to you, it did it for the long term. Was it good for us? Maybe not, but it did its job.
[01:06:46] That that's the way I'd kind of see it enough, but sorry. You were going to say something there. No, no
[01:06:51] Pat: [01:06:51] way. I'm just, just talking about us as I'm thinking of, um, when we are stressed and we're, high-strung, [01:07:00] we're obviously clean to what is right now. And so it's only in retrospect I can see, I didn't get a laugh from those sessions with her at that time, but I did go back and train in jujitsu a day, go back meditating at that time, which were not directly related.
[01:07:13] I just recognize the need to, I went and spent a week or where my half. And I think the combination of some combination of some of these things that I data at the time. Only within maybe I think that really helped me start getting a grip of my, my nervous system. I think it really helped me to learn how to deep down regulate my nervous system.
[01:07:31] And then a year, a year down the line, I was able to make sense of a lot of things that I wasn't able to make sense of before, because if I'm in fight or flight all the time, it's, it's what we were talking about earlier in terms of reflective and balanced thinking. Like if I'm stressed and I'm overwhelmed that I'm anxious, it's very hard to see the positive in that situation.
[01:07:48] And so that's where meditation such good thing, because it helps me drop out of this panic and into a more balanced, um, where we started when we talked earlier about awareness and attention can go from the [01:08:00] attention of what's wrong to awareness. So I think jiu-jitsu meditation, journaling, all these practices.
[01:08:05] I'm seeing this like go therapist at the moment is confused with what I'm seeing as like a psychotherapist at the moment. And we're working on the archetypes and I don't have any specific reason to be going to them. There's no glaringly. Uh it's again, the secret may more, um, But I'm much more receptive and a much more open to learning from people now as well, because I don't need to defend anything anymore because I like who I am, but I didn't like who I had to defend how I was seen now.
[01:08:31] I like who I am, so I don't. Okay.
[01:08:34] Noel: [01:08:34] What's that like sitting in the, in that space,
[01:08:38] Pat: [01:08:38] in the
[01:08:38] Noel: [01:08:38] space, a bit of both the space of the therapist, but to get to the space with the therapist, you got to sit with yourself and kind of go, um, all right. Well, who I am, because like, when you think about you spend most of your life now,
[01:08:53] Pat: [01:08:53] have you even thought
[01:08:54] Noel: [01:08:54] about that?
[01:08:55] Pat: [01:08:55] It's really it's, it feels really good. [01:09:00] Um, and it's, it's affirming because it allows me to be me. And when I'm me and people say, I really enjoyed what you did there it's me. Whereas when people set it between 24 and 28 or Pat, you're doing so great, I didn't believe it because I knew it wasn't me.
[01:09:15] It was a mask. Um, if that makes sense, but. That's perfect. Um, I think Aubrey Americas or someone that had some quote where he said that, that the ego can't receive love only acknowledgement. Um, but the true self can receive love. I thought that was an interesting way of looking at it.
[01:09:36] Chris: [01:09:36] Yeah, I think for me, and I've seen research to confirm this, that a lot of, um, the success or failure of things like therapy talk therapy or anything, you know, there's an element of placebo and everything, by the way, there's, there's always going to be some dizzy.
[01:09:55] So you have to, if you go into something, um, and your priors are, I'm [01:10:00] completely going to reject this and there's no point in really doing it, you know, because you're going to go in and go, this isn't working. You've already made the decision. And a lot of the times I think, um, a good client therapist relationship and I've had a few, um, would be you have a good relationship with the person.
[01:10:17] So normally I get on. Like, even if we weren't a client and therapist, we can hang out and, you know, whatever. So I'm more receptive to things he says and, you know, we can, he's more receptive to me when I am like saying no that's bullshit or he's saying Chris tasks bullshit because it has to work in that way.
[01:10:34] I think. Um, so like, I think a lot of people go and go to a psychologist or a, um, uh, psychotherapists and they go, you are the expert. And a lot of the time, unless it's like maybe CBT based or more prescriptive, especially, especially if it's person centered therapy where a lot of time, um, from what I've heard, they will listen more than they will speak.
[01:10:58] And I know a lot of people [01:11:00] that go to therapy and they go either a few sessions, but like, they didn't talk. So it was just me talking, you know, what the hell is the point. They're not paying whatever an hour for it. And you know, I'm doing all the talking. There's no point in that. I need something. Now give me something immediately.
[01:11:14] I need a microwave solution. I am feeling sick. Fix me. I go home. That's the doctor, the Western idea of medicine. No, give me a medicine. I will feel better, you know, then we'll move on. Um, but I, I found that the only way this would have worked for me and Nolan is if I continued to do it, which is why I've continued.
[01:11:35] And I think it's interesting to hear you say, you go to a psychotherapist and you've no reason to, I think that's the right time to go because you have the space and you now have the kind of, um, mental fortitude to say, like, okay, I'm ready now to experience like unraveling and peeling back layers of the onion.
[01:11:56] And when I see something that perhaps upsets me, I'm okay to [01:12:00] go with it, that place. I know what to do and allow those emotions to wash over me. I can get through that to get back to equilibrium and then go back again. Um, but I wanted to ask you as well part about, um, you seem to have, uh, Not pushed to the wayside, but you've moved on from the fitness, um, space.
[01:12:20] Um, I don't know how I would classify you now. What, what would you call your job now?
[01:12:26] Pat: [01:12:26] Uh, I'm gonna call my job now. Um,
[01:12:34] um, I call it like a goal by coach cause it's easiest way, but I don't coach anyone. I don't do any coaching. So, um, I facilitate groups. Um, I try to promote meditation and self-inquiry, um, that's really what I'm trying to do. Um, so I run meditation groups, teaching meditation and journaling. Um, I run men's groups, which is facilitate talk therapy.
[01:12:58] Um, [01:13:00] Joining a men's group was one of the most healing things I did, um, in my own experience. So I try to run them now, just bringing men together to talk vulnerably and openly. Um, and then I do a lot of corporate workshops in the carpet stuff. I suppose it's all the same to me. It's all the same stuff it's about helping people find a level of self-acceptance and, and, um, and that, that takes different things into account from like a little bit of neuroscience and a little bit of the very practical for the corporate world to give strategies and tools and tactics on energy management.
[01:13:30] Um, but ultimately to me, what it's about is, uh, encouraging people to is probably the best way of putting it is I used to be a physical fitness guy. Now I see myself as mental and emotional fitness. So you look after your physical fitness, you have a better chance of physical health. You look after your mental fitness, you've better chance of mental health.
[01:13:47] I think, um, for too long mental health was something I hoped for. Um, but I didn't do anything to, to earn that.
[01:13:56] Chris: [01:13:56] Yeah, we would follow his action. And like, I think it's interesting you use the word [01:14:00] facilitate, um, because that's, uh, a way that you look at it, you see it as your creating a space for self discovery rather than proselytizing.
[01:14:10] So, yeah, and I think there's a lot of. Um, people in the world now that are, they see themselves as coaches or teachers are mentors and they, they, they give themselves this title and then they go and say, you should do this. I am sure of it. No. And I firmly believe that, you know, surety is kind of an intellectual voice and we cannot be sure of anything, you know?
[01:14:33] Um, none of us know everything, many of us know enough to know that we know fuck all, but none of us know everything. But do you see like the space as I was trying to explain to the guys earlier that I see, um, what you do and, and people who do, um, similar things that have gone on their own journey and then try, and our facilitate people's learning or their own self discovery as like [01:15:00] the.
[01:15:00] There's a void has been created by perhaps the secularization of, of a society. Um, many of us don't look to religion anymore as the default, uh, for, um, uh, coping or for hope or for, to, you know, give order to the chaos of life. Um, and I wonder if you had, like, I don't know if you've even past lives or anything like that, but do you see yourself as like the modern kind of priest or healer or, you know, the people, because if you think about it, people are going to you and they're sitting at your, your alternate and you're, you're able to say I've gone on this journey and these are the things that I've learned.
[01:15:38] And I would now encourage you to go on your own journey and I'll facilitate that for you. You create a vibe in a room and people connect on that vibe and it either works or it doesn't have interest to see how you see that.
[01:15:53] Pat: [01:15:53] Um, I've been talking a lot about internal family systems recently, which is this idea that we have all these sub-personalities [01:16:00] and it's kind of a it's demonstrated when you hear someone say it there's a part of me as a parent, to me, that's a fatal people or people think of me.
[01:16:07] So that's one party and then there's all these. So as you asked me that question, there's a part of me that thinks it will be hugely egotistical to say, yes, I see myself as some kind of modern day priest, but then if I'm honest, there's another part of me that thinks that's a pretty cool thing. If that's what I'm able to do, which I do feel I'm able to do it.
[01:16:25] Like I was on zoom this morning at 7:00 AM and I had 200 people on meditating going from 18 year olds up to people in their late seventies. And, um, just to watch these people meditating, and then everyone's got their pen and paper out and they're doing the journaling prompts and I'm again, facilitating that.
[01:16:41] It does make me really uncomfortable when someone projects onto me that I've got the answers, um, because I recognize. One of my biggest learnings. Uh, everything comes back to black and white thinking. I think really like that's a huge issue in the world, both on a individual basis and a collective level.
[01:17:00] [01:16:59] And people make people either heroes or villains. And I think if you put someone on a pedestal, eventually they're going to let you down because they're not going to meet with the picture in your head of who they are. And if you villainize someone, you make them completely wrong. You forget that there's beauty in them as well.
[01:17:13] And so I believe that everything I see out there is going on inside of me. So the things that really upset me in the world are a part of me that I have made peace with, or at least the part of me that I'm capable of. If I don't keep tabs on myself and equally the things that inspire me are in me as well.
[01:17:27] So, um, I don't want to be seen on any level as being seen as I go, maybe a couple of steps ahead in one small little area of life, which I think is an important area of life. Um,
[01:17:39] Chris: [01:17:39] You're blazing a trail. Hopefully I don't think, I don't think anyone has the answers, Pat. I think you have the right questions.
[01:17:45] And I think it it's a lot more, um, appropriate in life to find people that have uncovered the right questions to ask yourself then to look at people who are telling you, I have the answer here is the answer [01:18:00] to exactly, as I say, because that's the difference between someone who is really trying to be in service and help other people on a charlatan.
[01:18:07] You know, at the end of the day, you are able to say, I've asked these questions of myself and this is what has come up. And that is continually changing. I would encourage you to do this. That's what journaling is. You know, it's a continuous process.
[01:18:18] Pat: [01:18:18] We go back to Joseph Campbell and the hero's journey, which again, I really resonate with.
[01:18:22] And I think is obviously everyone resonates with the hero's journey, right? That's why it's the hero's journey. But, um, I, I do think does that idea that you find your wound, you fix the wound and then you come back to the tribe with the medicine and in hand. And my wounds have been not fitting in. So I've tried to gray communities where people feel like they fit in my other wounds.
[01:18:41] They're not liking a lot of aspects of myself. And having feeling out of integrity has been a wound feeling lonely has been a wound and all these things I struggle with to just try to fix it myself, hopefully first, at least at least in part, because there's that intellectual part of me as well, that there will be a tendency to want to be.
[01:19:00] [01:18:59] I think, in the archetype of where they call it, the wounded magician, which is the person that calls to try to fix everyone else before he's done the work himself. I got to keep tabs on that and not be jumping the gun. Um, but equally I think you, I think they call it the wounded healer, which is, um, Chevron I'm on the journey.
[01:19:15] And I'm also developing through these practices and I'm finding levels of self-acceptance as I feel accepted by the tribe. You're more
[01:19:25] Chris: [01:19:25] self aware than you were, and that's other people can learn from that. I have this thing on up here on my shelf that my parents gave me when I graduated. And I don't speak Latin though.
[01:19:34] So I'm going to butcher this, but it says by teaching we learn. Um, yeah, I've always tried to look for someone who is more than I am and whatever I'm trying to figure out and someone who's perhaps a little bit further behind. Um, and I think it helps me to auto-regulate if I can look to someone and then pass on what I'm learning, like we, we were very careful [01:20:00] when we were putting this all together because I do not want anyone to think that I have anything figured out.
[01:20:04] I have no idea. Um, I'm trying to figure it out as is no, as it's done. Um, and I started to understand as are you, but there are people that are a lot further behind in there's. Lots of people don't know that don't introspect at all. They take much of life for granted and they do seek the external and, you know, they spend a lot of time on, on happy or discontent, um, because they refuse to, to uncover those things, you know, and like, I've, I've heard a lot of people say, no, I won't go to the therapist because I just don't want to know what will come up.
[01:20:38] I'd be afraid of what will come up. Um,
[01:20:41] Pat: [01:20:41] you know, what I'm hopeful is, um, I, I, when I was in fitness, I saw my role as being the gateway drug, right? So I was the guy that was, uh, if you were two stone overweight and you were scared of the gym, I wanted to get you into the gym, into a non-intimidating atmosphere, lose [01:21:00] the weight, and then I'd pull you aside and say, okay, your time is up here.
[01:21:03] You need to go and train a CrossFit, or you need to go and do something more advanced. So in the same way, if I could get a large audience in this space and get people doing a bit of pen and paper and doing a little bit of journaling, sometimes when I go work in the corporate space, The occupational psychologist kick up saying that I shouldn't be talking about the things that I'm talking about, but I say, look, it's not me versus you.
[01:21:23] I'm trying to get the couple of hundred people that work in the organization and say to them, go and use the EAP program, go and speak to a psychologist. And you might get one in 10, one in 20 that will do it. But a lot of people that probably don't need the therapists there that they don't need plant medicine, or they don't need psychedelics that they don't need fill in the blank.
[01:21:41] You know, journaling my
[01:21:43] Chris: [01:21:43] barriers to entry as well, but just unfair, you know, it's freedom of access to information. This is, um, it's in the commons, you know, you should learn from whoever, whoever wants to teach you, listen to whomever can can teach. But this leads onto a question I have for you, which is, you know, personal development.
[01:21:59] It seems to [01:22:00] be something that you're embodying and you espouse, but do you think personal development, um, is more or less important that then personally
[01:22:07] Pat: [01:22:07] accepted? Yeah, it's a great question. Um, 24 to 28 was personal development in my, my land in some ways. I mean, I read every book on the sun. I'm looking at your bookshelves.
[01:22:17] They're trying to figure out what, even with the blurry cameras. I think I see
[01:22:21] Chris: [01:22:21] the same things I guarantee.
[01:22:22] Pat: [01:22:22] I think I see Carol Rogers book on a bookshelf, the purple book, the
[01:22:26] Noel: [01:22:26] shoulder.
[01:22:28] Pat: [01:22:28] Well, yes. Um, personal acceptance is more important. And I, to give you an example of what I see sometimes is if you see a child who finds their thing, like say they love sport and they play that sport growing up and they become that athlete.
[01:22:46] A lot of those people just have figured out all this personal development stuff without having to formally learn it. Cause they just found their thing. It had a bit of a vision. They stay consistent with the vision they got around. Like my people, all of these things happened and they accept themselves because they [01:23:00] like what they're doing.
[01:23:00] Um, not as parents of themselves, there'll be unaware of like the rest of us push, um, Then the long way round is I stopped in the things that I enjoy when I'm young. Um, a lot of my life gets taken off the things I don't enjoy. Then I feel like there's a gap. I try to fill the gap with external. It's the stuff.
[01:23:16] I think that I'm something is missing within me. So I look for things outside of myself and maybe I have to do all this development. And then I get all the development done, achieve all the things. And then I say, okay, I need to accept parents and myself. I'm probably not answering your question. Then
[01:23:33] Chris: [01:23:33] here's what I have in my mind.
[01:23:34] The context of like, we live in a duo society, you know, du, du, du, du, du, du, du, our answer to everything is do more. Um, and I I'm coming to some conclusions and I haven't for the last few years that I just want to do less. I have this thing of addition by subtraction. So I'm trying to like figure out ways where I can cut things out of my life and learn to say no and learn to, um, you know, say no and be okay with the fact that people are uncomfortable with [01:24:00] me saying no.
[01:24:01] Sorry. I find it very difficult to let people down. So when I say no and someone reacts negatively, my, you know, God instinct is go, Oh no, no, I capitulate. And then I'll do whatever you say, because I prefer not hurting people. Then finding congruence myself. Is it for me?
[01:24:18] Pat: [01:24:18] Is it not hurting someone or is it them judging you?
[01:24:23] Chris: [01:24:23] Um, both. I think like, I don't like the feeling of, you know, it's perception again. So I don't like the feeling of letting someone down. I can't know for sure if I'm letting someone down. Right. I can't, I would assume that if I say something to you, um, do you know pivotal figures in my life that I don't want to do X?
[01:24:44] My assumption is that, Oh, they want me to do it so I will go, I, I am envisioning letting them down so I will just avoid that situation completely. I live a lie. No. And that might sound, it might sound like I'm being, um, [01:25:00] hyperbolic, but you know, essentially when you're not in congruence or you, you keep saying you're living in integrity, you're out of whack, you know, you're, you're living a life.
[01:25:08] That's not true to what you actually feel like self-actualizing, you don't feel like you're living a truth for life. Um, so I would say, um, it's that validation piece, but also it's the piece of I'm hypothesizing and saying, I'm going to upset this person, um, to answer your question, uh, I have a question for you.
[01:25:28] I think it's, it's relevant to, this is kind of a section where I, I'm not going to get a chance, I think, um, for a long time to sit down in front of you and ask you a bunch of questions that I need answered. So, uh, we're we're gonna, we're gonna do this. Hey, Chris. Uh, so you're, you're caught in Groundhog day.
[01:25:44] Okay. And you, but you get to choose the day you exist in forevermore. Okay. Okay, positivity today. I don't know if I'm pronouncing your surname, right? So you correct me if I'm, uh, Pat, Pat today has learned all this stuff, [01:26:00] know, whatever, just call me,
[01:26:07] call it whatever you want. You've knocked on this stuff and you're allowed to live the same day over and over and over again. Describe that day to me.
[01:26:18] Pat: [01:26:18] Um, okay. Perfect day lived repeatedly. Yep. Uh, I wake up next to the love of my life. Who's imaginary right now. She's not she's real. This moment is I, um, I go for a sea swim with her.
[01:26:38] Maybe come back, have some breakfast. Uh, I get into work. I'm working with a bunch of people, um, in helping them find self-acceptance and I'm building tribes and communities through my work. I'm writing books, recording podcasts. That's the bulk of my work. And then I'm studying courses throughout the day on stuff to do with [01:27:00] the mind, the body, uh, the emotional body spirituality.
[01:27:04] I meditate in the day. I change it to, I surf. I, um, catch up with friends and family. It's some good food. How many hours for the day I get all this done by midday. So
[01:27:21] Chris: [01:27:21] two o'clock the morning. I'm so
[01:27:22] Pat: [01:27:22] enlightened at this point that the meditation is just this and this open eyes closed. Um, no, my perfect day is yeah, jujitsu surf, little bit of time outside time with people.
[01:27:32] I love studying. I'm an absolute nerd for studying, um, different courses and seminars and things. And. Yeah, I'm close enough to what I want right now, apart from I miss my jujitsu, but that would be it. Yeah. Okay. Would you say you're
[01:27:46] Chris: [01:27:46] a busy, a busy person, um,
[01:27:49] Pat: [01:27:49] or full full? Yeah. Um, I don't have a lot of external commitments that like I have to show up for, like does not lock my calendar that I have to show up for, but there is a lot that I [01:28:00] want to get done.
[01:28:00] So, um, I'm due a couple of hours of writing today. I'll have this conversation with you guys or run a couple of courses during the day. I do a couple of corporate cuts. Um, there's not, I probably visited, I get a lot done, but I don't feel crazy.
[01:28:15] Chris: [01:28:15] Uh, would you, would you beat yourself up now, if you don't get done, like, let's say you had, I guarantee you before you go to sleep, you write down what you want to do the next day.
[01:28:24] You seem like that kind of person, but you know, the next day then if you're being quote unquote on productive, do you beat yourself up
[01:28:31] Pat: [01:28:31] about, um, I've learned to lower my expectations. It's kind of a, it's kind of a weird thing to say, but like when you lower your expectations on yourself and you find consistency in a lot more done.
[01:28:43] So like I'm writing this book that I'm finishing that hopefully will get to my publisher in the next three weeks. So it's kind of like almost there, but I got all these I'm going to do 2000 words a day was my vision. And, um, that didn't happen. So it was dragged for months. If I had done [01:29:00] 500 words a day and drop the expectation on myself, uh, it would have happened a lot smoother.
[01:29:04] So I think about that in the context of all areas of my life. Um, how can I drop the expectation? I used to say in the fitness space that when my clients wanted three healthy meals a day, anytime they slipped up, they felt like they messed up. Whereas if they tried to get breakfast, right, they build positive momentum and generally did better off the back of that.
[01:29:21] So I don't beat myself up. No,
[01:29:23] Noel: [01:29:23] that's something that I you're looking from research and. Self part. And that's why I said I kind of, I wasn't too familiar with it, but then I realized there was, and they really liked a lot of the stuff that you're talking about. But the key one for me was that acceptance piece.
[01:29:38] Not just because you said it, but because I could really see you're living it and I'm loving, seeing and hearing that now. And it's, um, there's a guy I came across some 10 years ago or so, uh, John wooden, he was a very famous basketball coach. Like the Messiah of basketball coach college basketball coaches in America.
[01:29:56] One of his books had said with easy rights with Jane, um, [01:30:00] Steve James, uh, Steve Jameson. I think he does a lot of stuff on leadership, but it's called John wooden. I think it's on page 54. I can't remember exact thing, but he was talking about, um, like failure. I haven't made any failures losses. Yes. I've got a lot of them, but once I know that I'm genuinely honestly giving the best I can, then it's not a failure.
[01:30:19] And I'm seeing that and coming through with you and the expectation that's, that's actually a big piece of it. Just over the last year with cold, the expectation that we have on ourselves, you know, I've simplified it down just to help understand, kind of say what the, COVID say last year, 2019, we had these goals or these things that we achieved or whatever, but there was all of this input and we're there in 2020.
[01:30:44] So input versus output, then in 2020, then we're expecting the same outputs, the inputs weren't, they're not ATAR, you know, you didn't have your two, three holidays or your 20 weekends, you know, where you're able to go out and all these different kinds of things and those [01:31:00] expectations. And it also kind of, it was something that throughout the podcast you're talking today and the dream keeps coming up for me, is that the acceptance of, um, as I said, they were John wooden, but lots of other things, you know, with, with failures and not a big one for people, people that will be in the sports would be say the all blacks and a really interesting guy called Gilbert and okay.
[01:31:21] Their mental skills coach and a big thing for them was like, if you're, if you're born in New Zealand, you're just expected to win the rugby world cups from, you know, straight away in such a massive pressure. So that's, that's the same pressure that Pat put on himself as a kid that I, you know, people put on themselves as kid, as children.
[01:31:37] And it's the fear that fear of failure, the fear of letting down on a beautiful thing is once you can accept that quote, unquote failure or not writing those 2000 words every day, every week or whatever it is, that's when you're able to just be at your best. And I think the misconception is a lot of people's are, but also what you don't care.
[01:31:56] It was like, no pot absolutely does care, but he cares in a [01:32:00] totally different way. All you care in a totally different way. And it just gives you that you're actually able to keep your it's about keeping your standards of key, you know, but it's, it's the, uh, adjusting those expectations and that, have you noticed that, did you spend particular focus on that or did you just come to that?
[01:32:17] Do you think that the whole acceptance piece of. Just accept and we self was the arm. And now I'm actually going to say, because you mentioned Carl Rogers, but I know the curious paradox is that when I accept myself as I just, as I am, then I can change.
[01:32:34] Pat: [01:32:34] Yeah. And Anthony D'Amato might be one of my favorite TV is one of my favorite teachers might be my favorite teacher, but is a quote, something to the effect of, I was neurotic for years.
[01:32:44] Um, I was anxious and depressed and I didn't like myself and everyone around me kept telling me to change and I wanted to change and I desperately wanted to change, but I couldn't change. And then someone came to me and they said, don't change. You're perfect as you are. And that day I relaxed. And that [01:33:00] day I came alive and that day I changed.
[01:33:02] Um, but again, if we go back to kind of 24 to 28 was the, I'll be happy when story, so I'll be happy when I get to the next school. So it was always living in the future and not excited in the presence. And then it switched to almost resenting goals and saying, I don't need goals. Goals are a wasted time goal.
[01:33:22] I did the goals thing. Didn't make me happy and then going with the flow and then make them, and this like stoner hippie that they didn't do entered in life. I wasn't actually. And so I think the perfect, we used an analogy earlier of climbing the mountain, right? So I think the three aspects of climbing a mountain is my climbing the right mountain.
[01:33:41] So, you know, am I on the right mountain as number one, I might chase my own goals or someone else's the second is, am I enjoying the climb? And the third one that no one really ever thinks about is who am I climbing with? And so there's no point chasing everything under the sun and I'm doing that alone and waking up feeling, um, like you've given up on the [01:34:00] people around you for the sake of something, you know, that.
[01:34:04] Chris: [01:34:04] This year. Are you, are you in your Dharma? No. Um, do you think, do you think that what you're doing and, and the things you're supposing and the way you're living your life? I mean, I asked you that question because, um, everyone envisions a perfect day. Someone would say like, go to a beach in Barbados, would, you know, coconut water or whatever.
[01:34:24] Um, but you're talking about jujitsu and you're talking about which I thought was interesting and going to the office, cause I'm going to work with people that wouldn't be something I'd fit into mind. I think, um,
[01:34:35] Pat: [01:34:35] maybe I do, maybe I've verbalized that wrong. I don't want to leave my house to work. I'll work on nine with them.
[01:34:43] Chris: [01:34:43] Okay. So like, do you think you're living your Dharma now and let's say you get to meet the pad at a 80. Mm. And Adrial Pat, what do you hope, he'll say, do you hope, you'll say you've continued on in this vein. Are you in the sweet spot now? Are, [01:35:00] you know, are you going to rewrite some of that stuff?
[01:35:02] Pat: [01:35:02] I was out hiking, a good guy for the buck gas for yourselves, by a guy called Derek Colin, nice guy.
[01:35:07] He's walked around Ireland. He's walks and mud trails, uh, abroad, but we're out walking. He said, he asked me, he goes, what's your perfect day. And I listed out, well, my perfect day was, and he goes, that's what I see you doing right now. And I was like, Oh, it was kind of a light bulb moment. So there's only little things maybe that I'd get some support on the adminy stuff that I take away.
[01:35:24] Some of the noise that drives me with daft. Maybe I'd be off social media completely. There'd be a few small sorts of changes, but for the most part, I'm where I want to be. And, um, I talked about the different characters in our heads that we have, and there's a character I've recognized in my head. That's called the ordinary man.
[01:35:40] And that's the, like, prior to me, that's afraid of, um, Afraid of stepping out too much or saying the wrong thing, because I think people will find me relatable, particularly an Irish audience find me relatable. And there's times where I have to filter myself and say, Pat, don't say that. Cause that lose people.
[01:35:55] Cause that's too far. So I'd like to, I'd like to silence that character a little [01:36:00] bit and have the box to say the things I want to say when sometimes. Yes. Um, but for the most part, yeah, I'm really proud and happy of who I am at this moment in time and I'm constantly leaning into new stuff. And so I think, you know, it's not going to be a drastic, overnight change ever, but hopefully if I continue to lean in, I'm sure my life will look very different, but.
[01:36:22] If you were to ask me where it would be in 10 years, I'd like to say I'm doing much of the same stuff, just at a better level. So I'm better at jujitsu. I'm more present or more engaged. I'm a better speaker. I'm maybe I won't be a speaker anymore. Who knows, but I'd like to think whatever I'm doing, I'm doing this Johnny Wilkinson.
[01:36:36] We talk there about the all blacks and the kind of expectations piece. He was on a podcast called the high-performance podcast. It's one of the best episodes. That's really good. But he said his only goal is to be all to him and every moment or something like that. So I think that's probably the goal getting
[01:36:50] Chris: [01:36:50] that's interesting.
[01:36:51] You'd like I would see that you're moving towards a more simple life than a more complex life. And you're looking at it. You aren't answering the question, [01:37:00] um, uh, and moving yourself towards growth. You're almost saying to me, in, in more certain terms that you're, you're happy with the contentment of perhaps mediocrity.
[01:37:12] You're not saying I want to be. Bigger than Tony Robbins. He's in the kind of similar bracket. Let's just say, you're not saying like, I want to build a huge team of 150 people and we want to, you know, I'm going to change everyone's life. Now you could say that because you're in that space, but you're, you're answering in a way that, to me resonates with me more strongly because I have this thing now where I'm questioning why everyone wants to be so damn successful all the time.
[01:37:39] What's wrong with being ordinary. What's wrong with just accepting what you have, um, making sure that you're secure enough, that you can feed yourself and, you know, whatever you have a few of the accoutrements that we can build up in life. Um, and then just accepting that what's wrong with saying I'd like to be exactly as I am now in 10 years time in 20 years time, because most people will say, I want to be [01:38:00] way better and way different.
[01:38:01] Pat: [01:38:01] Um, Allen, the button, I think his name is the scooter.
[01:38:05] Chris: [01:38:05] Yeah, I've got four or
[01:38:06] Pat: [01:38:06] five of his books. He had some, I thought it was really good. He mentioned this thing. He says, uh, You talked about media earlier, not consuming too much media. He says the media we consume, he says, you look at the X factor. They sell you this story of here's Sarah, she's got this horrible life and a counselor state.
[01:38:21] Now she's going to be famous and it's going to change your life. They sell you the sob story and say, when she's famous, she's gonna have a great life. We are Lee as her life goes to shit. Once you mom's famous. And she had a great life before, um, Sarah is not a real person there, that's just an avatar for it.
[01:38:34] But, um, yeah, but then the other ironic part of it is, is how many people are truly doing what they want to do in life. Um, and that makes you different, I suppose. So even if you're looking for a simple life, if you're genuinely doing what you want to do, people can sense that and it's magnetic. And, and, and so the irony of, of maybe given up on this need to be seen in a certain light and actually been seen how you want to see yourself, [01:39:00] maybe the proxy of that as you become more magnetic to people.
[01:39:02] I don't know.
[01:39:03] Chris: [01:39:03] Sure. There's also, it's not attachment though. Isn't it there's
[01:39:06] Noel: [01:39:06] just something on that level. It was actually something that you were talking about earlier as well. Um, But that, cause I know what the be people kind of just trying to think of people that listen to this. And I would have been asking these same questions and yeah, but what if you can't do that exact same thing.
[01:39:19] And I think it was coming back to, um, it was, we were talking with the balance. Um, but the way I've often talked about it, similar kind of way specific to maybe a little bit different. But, um, I look at the sustainability because say for me to get to where I w where I got to, where I really enjoyed it with it just full-time psychotherapy work on that to get to that.
[01:39:40] I wasn't, that wasn't sustainable. I think the sustainability piece is really important. So it's, as you were saying, um, partners get that balance, get the balance there of, okay. I can't, my dream would be to, to be a singer all of the time. I was like, I, but I can't do that. Or for whatever reason, which, and sometimes it's just, it is too difficult to [01:40:00] do that because there's bills to pay and stuff like that.
[01:40:02] But it's about, you know, sustainability. I don't love this job if it's just this job on its own. Okay, well, what could you do to, to help that job? And what could you do to sustain the sort of sustainable? Well, actually if I had that job and if I did some sing and I did this and I did this other thing, well, that could make it work, you know, it's it's, to me, it's the ingredients of it.
[01:40:23] Like if you might have some of these beautiful cakes that people eat, if you weren't one of the ingredients on its own, You'd get sick, but in combination of everything, it's like, Oh, this, this is beautiful. This is the best thing ever. I think that's, that's just, what's coming up for me there as well.
[01:40:37] That's
[01:40:37] Pat: [01:40:37] sustainable. Well, there was a, was it years ago, uh, around this three-day retreat and we used to laugh because sometimes one half of a couple will come to a retreat and then I'd get an aggressive email from the other half, whether it was changed, but this guy wants emailed and he had sent his wife to the retreat and he goes, it's three weeks on.
[01:40:54] Um, we just wanted to fill you in. She made one change since she left the retreat, we had done sales. So [01:41:00] classes as part of the retreat, we did salsa Kickbox and African drama classes. It was all about coming in and trying new things and it reignited her passion for dance. And so she left the retreat. She started doing dance classes once a week and he said, she's a better mom.
[01:41:12] She's a better parent. No, she's a better, no, again, if you're back to that idea of, I don't accept myself and I need to change every 10 to 19 to get somewhere. Well here, you know, it's the smallest sort of the changes. And it's just like, where does, where does confidence come from? Confidence comes from listening to yourself and then acting on what you hear.
[01:41:30] So when you listen to yourself, your inner voice, doesn't say, quit your job and change everything overnight. Your inner voice might say, go and research. That course you've always thought about doing. And then you go and research and you act on what you heard. And then you consistently do that for long enough and everything changes.
[01:41:44] Um, but it's, we don't listen. And we don't act on what we hear, I think is probably,
[01:41:50] Noel: [01:41:50] which is exactly what I need just to bring it full circle. It was, that's exactly why I asked the question. You know, it's getting that message out there of how are you? Cause once you, you actually checked in [01:42:00] with yourself, you'll know watching, you know, what you need in some way, shape or form.
[01:42:05] Pat: [01:42:05] I
[01:42:05] Chris: [01:42:05] am not sure a legend and I feel like I'm going to levitate off the seat we talking. Um, but we, I thought that we came up with this idea, but I listened to a podcast you did with Darren gurney and she uses a quick fire round. So I think we stole this idea. Um, but we, we, uh, are, we don't call the quickfire on anymore because it's never fucking quickfire.
[01:42:23] Um, so it's a fairly quick fire round. So 10 questions you got about five seconds to answer each one. Okay. First thing that pops into your head before you start, could you do me a quick favor and
[01:42:35] Pat: [01:42:35] say, roll the intro. Roll the intro. Yes. I know this is your last game. So beating around the Bush
[01:42:44] 10 questions. Come on five seconds on the clock. We already know y'all need a lot of time for questions. Come on under that.
[01:42:53] Chris: [01:42:53] Okay. Question one. Okay. You can only have one book talk or piece of content to guide you for the rest of your life. Which one do you [01:43:00] choose?
[01:43:01] Pat: [01:43:01] Awareness to book and to talk? Yeah.
[01:43:04] Chris: [01:43:04] Okay. I haven't read that. Number two. You're forced to live in a five kilometer circle for the rest of your life, but you get to choose.
[01:43:10] Where, where do you choose to live
[01:43:11] Pat: [01:43:11] right here? Where I am in Barna.
[01:43:14] Chris: [01:43:14] Okay. Very good. Question three. You choose your dinner party. Three guests, dead or alive. Who do you pick and why?
[01:43:22] Pat: [01:43:22] Oh God. Um,
[01:43:26] that's medium. My own countdown timer. D D D uh, three guests. I'd like to go for a dinner with my granddad because he died when I was a kid, my two granddads, cause they both died when I was kids and I'd like to get to know them. I've come to understand like just how small a part of this we are at. Like how many people have to come before us for us to be sat here.
[01:43:44] And you kind of forget that in this it's a bit of a trip. So those two and I'm Pamela Anderson.
[01:43:53] Chris: [01:43:53] Okay. That one, there that'd be an interesting conversation. Three lads. Uh, [01:44:00] okay. Number four, name something weird or absurd that you love.
[01:44:03] Pat: [01:44:03] Um, gladiators from 1993 on YouTube. That's not weird. Um, but as that of your answers are
[01:44:12] Chris: [01:44:12] answered, I've
[01:44:13] Pat: [01:44:13] got more, uh, Justin Bieber tunes.
[01:44:18] Chris: [01:44:18] I like the new Justin Bieber song. What was it? Peaches or something or oranges? Are there a lot of those what's good peaches or so I got my water. It's called focus. Um, number five, names, something you couldn't live without, um,
[01:44:32] Pat: [01:44:32] books.
[01:44:34] Chris: [01:44:34] Number six, if you were the last person on earth, what would you still do?
[01:44:38] Pat: [01:44:38] Not jujitsu and
[01:44:45] see swim. I don't know. Psychedelics. You could surf
[01:44:48] Chris: [01:44:48] surf and I'll answer your question for you, but question seven, if you could broadcast a message to everyone on earth, what would it
[01:44:56] Pat: [01:44:56] be? This is it.
[01:45:01] [01:45:00] Chris: [01:45:01] Yeah. Nice. Sorry, I'm just contemplating that question. Hey, what advice should young people ignore?
[01:45:09] Pat: [01:45:09] Um,
[01:45:14] be realistic question. Who's telling you to be realistic.
[01:45:21] Chris: [01:45:21] I mean, you know, be realistic fit, fit within my convention. Um, question nine, if you feel overwhelmed, what do you instinctively?
[01:45:30] Pat: [01:45:30] Um, my journal, I box breathe the
[01:45:35] Chris: [01:45:35] box. That's the four, four, four, four, four. And it's great. Yeah, box breathing. I've haven't heard it.
[01:45:40] Call that for question 10. Finish this sentence at the end of the day, it all comes down to,
[01:45:46] Pat: [01:45:46] Hmm. Being honest with yourself for good
[01:45:55] Chris: [01:45:55] part. You are, um, and Explorer [01:46:00] seeker, teacher. A modern day priest, whatever you want to call it a chef, but this has been a fantastic, this has been an accident. The episode, I think I've learned a lot from it and I hope you guys have too.
[01:46:13] So we're gonna wrap up there. Thank you very much.
[01:46:17] Pat: [01:46:17] Jump out the bed. I got a big thank you to everyone who listened to today's episode, especially if you listen to all the way through, and now you're hearing me do this. If you want to learn more about us and what we do, you can check us out@wwwdotonedmcpodcast.com does a lot of cool stuff on there.
[01:46:29] Also, if you are listening on Apple podcast, please consider leaving us a rating and review, or if you're listening on Spotify or any other podcast platform, please follow us there if you want as well. So you can always keep up to date with the latest episodes. Big. Thanks guys again, catch you next week.
[01:46:42] Have a great day. Week, month, year, peace out.
