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Transcripts may (read: definitely will) contain typos. We use software to transcribe the show and American artificial intelligence is apparently not intelligent enough to understand the Irish accent; go figure!
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[00:00:00] Chris: [00:00:00] Welcome to episode two of the one DMC podcast. If this is your third time tuning in, I just want to say thank you. Um, if it's not obvious already, we're learning as we go here. Uh, we're leaning into our own discomfort here. Um, and we're trying our best, so yeah. Without further ado today's episode. I want to profile Nolan a little bit and I wanted to kind of use no as a means to demonstrate the merits of a therapy.
[00:00:35] And I want to help people who have never even thought about therapy before. Or never considered psychotherapy or never introspective enough to feel like they should consider psychotherapy. I want to use NOLA basically to demonstrate how effective it can be for you, whether you believe it or not. All of us, regardless of [00:01:00] our race, creed, our job, our sex, we all walk around with, um, a conscious mind.
[00:01:09] And what that means is that sometimes we go through difficulties, it's difficult to serve the facilitates of daily life. And I have benefited from having someone to speak to on a regular basis, often on a weekly basis, because it provides that level of objectivity that some of us may need to be able to see the wood from the trees.
[00:01:30] So before we dive into Yunan and, and, you know, I wanted to go into some of your character development, et cetera. I want to perhaps embody, um, our target audience. You know, we did some exercises, uh, before we started the podcast or before we started this adventure in podcasting to try and understand who might listen and who really needs, um, this show and what we came up with and what we think we may be wrong.
[00:02:00] [00:01:59] But. We think people between the age of 18 to 40, we think primarily males, but we do believe, and a lot of the research that has come back has been that a lot of females need us too. Um, and we think people that are going through transitional periods in their life. And when I'm speaking about, when I say transitional periods is times where you're going from a position of safety, Uh, security and routine to somewhere where you're a little bit exposed, something like this.
[00:02:32] Like we're leaning into our discomfort here and starting a podcast and speaking about our own vulnerabilities, but you know, something that'd be an analogous to that would be, uh, leaving, uh, secondary school. And going into first-year college, uh, leaving college and going into, you know, the big, bad world, trying to find a job and trying to find out who you are, you know, experimenting with all sorts of stuff with your, you know, [00:03:00] sexuality, with drugs, with anything.
[00:03:02] So I'm going to embody, let's say one of our personas and we have a few, but I think, uh, I'll, I'll start with, let's say. What I call the disenfranchised lad. And let me, let me describe it for a second. So I'm 18 or 19. I'm a guy I played, you know, probably senior schools rugby, or I played a, you know, a high level of soccer.
[00:03:28] Uh, basically I'm, you know, considered shit hot in the small town that I'm from. Um, I'm concerned with what my peers think of me. My locus of control or my local evaluation is almost entirely external. What I choose to wear is based on what my friends think is cool or what shoes they're wearing. Uh, you know, what I'm interested in is based on oftentimes whatever notes is interested in, uh, you know, it's difficult for me to find that sense of self I speak, you know, [00:04:00] oftentimes chauvinistically, um, with regards to women, I talked to my buddies about how many girls I've gotten with in the locker room, you know, telling stories of the girl I got with NASA night and you know, how many beers I managed to smash and, you know, a typical lad.
[00:04:15] Okay. But despite the appearance appearance, and despite presenting, you know, that veneer of perfection, you know, I got the sick hair and I'm a good looking dude. And you know, it's all going on. I lead somewhat of a joyless life. I feel that, um, I'm not being genuine when I wear those shoes because, you know, I really like skateboarding and none of my friends like it.
[00:04:46] So I prefer to be rocking a new Nike SBS, but you know, I've got those Stan Smiths because all my buddies were Stan Smith's, uh, I find myself crying, you know, here and there. [00:05:00] I can't really explain why, but sometimes when I go to bed at night, I think about, you know, where life is taking me. And I think about the leaving cert and it stresses me the fuck out.
[00:05:13] I think about going to college. And my parents are constantly onto me about doing this course and doing that course, and you have to get a steady job and, you know, I don't really care about any of that stuff. What I want to do is go off to, you know, the Swiss Alps and become a ski instructor. I don't care about money.
[00:05:29] Why should I care about money? And, you know, I've had a relationship with a girl for the past few years. Um, I've cheated on her a few times. I haven't told anyone, but it makes me feel like shit. And honestly, I think I'm down, you know, I wake up sometimes with. Anxiety. And I can't really explain it. You know, two weeks ago I had this feeling in my chest.
[00:05:59] Like I was having [00:06:00] a heart attack and I couldn't leave the house. Um, you know, oftentimes I don't want to meet my friends. People call me on a regular basis and I don't bother picking up the phone. And I just can't explain why, but everyone thinks I'm fine. Do I need therapy? No. And before, do I need therapy?
[00:06:23] What is therapy and why would I bother going? Yeah.
[00:06:28] Noel: [00:06:28] Good question. First, just on the first part you said, um, do I need therapy? It's never for me as a therapist or anyone else to say you, you know, you need therapy in general. Like the, and that's why I'd never really say specifically to a person. I don't think it's right.
[00:06:49] It's not my place to say it or anyone else's place really to say, because for a few different reasons, but, um, in general, it's [00:07:00] definitely something I would say, as you said there, um, and other times before therapy can be really, really good. Um, whether that's for, if you are. Like really in the throws of, um, depression, anxiety, and stress, or are going through a particularly difficult time bereavement or different kinds of things like that.
[00:07:19] Um, but it's also really good if everything's grant and you just want to kind of explore or understand that at the thing, but like you could have difficult things gone on happened in your life already, or go under the past or to coming up against a challenge or like that life is fine. What, so what you say a parent or someone has, has passed away and you just want a place to just reflect and talk without anyone's opinion or anything like that.
[00:07:42] Um, so on lots of different levels, like are, are also, if you want to just increase your performance in your job or your, or your sport or anything like that, just to unpack and reprocess, uh, and not reprocess, but process things differently. So. All of that together. Basically what I'm saying [00:08:00] is I wouldn't say directly to that person or unit therapy, but what I do say to people is that it can be really, really beneficial because it's really important that people come to this conclusion and decision themselves.
[00:08:14] Um, You know, you you'll get it where a partner might call up on behalf of the other person of their partner and say, Oh, they need that. They need to see someone or a parent. And it's all done through love. And it's all done with the best intentions of absolutely. It is. Um, and, and like I said, the parent might say, but the child or teenager, or, or are you kind of young adult, the early twenties and stuff like that?
[00:08:38] Um, That, uh, they, they need to see an, the, like the first question you have to ask is the therapy. No, not the forest question you have to ask. Sorry, I can't speak for everyone. The Fort, one of the first questions that Ali would ask is like, those, this person actually know. Uh, like, as in speaking to the parent, does your son or your daughter know, does your husband or wife know that you're making this phone call and [00:09:00] you're trying to set, you're try to sort that out.
[00:09:02] Um, and then it's always about if there is someone booking a session, it's always the person that is going to be attending needs to book us on that because it all comes down to the person choosing to do this because, you know, Lead a horse horse, the waters, you can't make them drink. And that, and that's especially the case in this it's and it's not really fair because in, we push it in most, you know, Yeah, it might push the person too much and then they get, they, they spur and away from, they just turn away from the, get too overwhelmed by us.
[00:09:30] Um, so it's, it's that's so that's what I find when you, when you go with it with her a really direct way is like you need therapy instead of the sort of approach and say, look, this is what I find is really useful for me. And I just highlight those things. Um, and if you're talking around the person, you know, and if you, if there's something obvious or maybe there's something soulful and you think there's something there, we do ask them if they're okay, like, how are you doing?
[00:09:53] Because so many times we will say, Oh, she's a phone. You had a known, I would've asked them. That's the way, the way I look at it. If, you know, if, [00:10:00] if. Friends have gone through something I'll always ask or if, um, for example, like say if, if friends have gone have had babies and, you know, posts, um, posts natally, then you know, when the baby's born in the first few weeks and months, I'll always make the point and it, and it can seem like, Oh, that's, don't be bringing on lots of the food there just after having a baby to be unhappy.
[00:10:22] I gladly be told to F off. And the w on the off chance that someone is upset and, and, and one of those people, isn't going to a good time. They go, no, actually, thanks for asking though. Um, and it's, so it's, it's this, it's more subtle. It's letting people know you're there and letting people know the option is there of counseling, as opposed to talking to that guy and say, you need therapy.
[00:10:46] Um, Because it could be totally the wrong timing and lots of different kinds of stuff like that. So hopefully that kind of answers that part of the question to a point, but I've got a lot more questions. Remember? [00:11:00] Yeah. I suspect I'm 15 or 19 and I
[00:11:03] Chris: [00:11:03] really I've never even considered it. So yeah,
[00:11:07] Noel: [00:11:07] I think to come back to the other parent to the go, go ahead, go ahead.
[00:11:11] I was going to
[00:11:12] Chris: [00:11:12] ask, am I sick? You know, do I need to see a doctor first? Like, I don't know where to look. Uh, okay. Someone told me about therapy before that like talk therapy could help, but yeah, I feel this way and some people say, no, I've got a chemical imbalance. You know, I read that on. I typed in some of my symptoms on Google and said, I have chemical imbalance and I should take Zoloft.
[00:11:35] Do I need to go to a doctor? And you know, am I sick or do I just need to talk to someone? What do I need
[00:11:41] Noel: [00:11:41] does that the different options, um, to, to start the process. If, what I'd always say to someone is talk to someone close to your forest and it's not because I say it could be a parent family member, auntie uncle neighbor, you know, someone close enough in your circle.
[00:11:57] Um, Or even someone that may not [00:12:00] necessarily be very close in your circle, like you could have say your brother and your sister plays for, uh, an Ozzie rules team or a GAA team or a soccer team or whatever. Put, you know, the other coach I've heard is really, really sounded a really they're a community person or whatever that you could even talk to that person, basically talk to someone, ask their opinion because they might know.
[00:12:18] You know, they might know someone and it's also to kind of a little bit of a friendly sound sounding board. Um, that's there that's, that's certainly one option. It's not the only option and there's no like magic formula to this design. There's no universal formula to this kind of thing. Um, it's trying to basically get you.
[00:12:38] Get your, get your head, get to get you the appropriate help. So that could be an idea where you talk to someone and then they kind of get an idea. Another one would be go to your GP, go to your local, um, practitioner and Andrew say, look, this is what's going on for me, they can either. It depends, depending on their level of knowledge within the area, some GPS are really [00:13:00] specialized because of whether it's personal or professional interest in the, in the mental health, you know, particular area.
[00:13:07] Some wouldn't have an adult medicine disrespect way. It wouldn't have a particularly keen interest. So they'd be kind of, they do what a lot of GPS do or not. And that's GPS are a feral point to be able to, and that's a great referral point to have to kind of like. They have a wide, um, um, uh, bond of knowledge.
[00:13:26] And they're able to kind of be like, this is what I think you need. So they send you off for, for, you know, to orthopedics or, or, you know, different kinds of areas, you nose and throat specialists or whatever. And they would be able to sort of lots of them as well. We'll be able to. George and George, the scenario, not George, you, but George, the situation in front and talk to you about medication, if that was an option, some don't.
[00:13:49] Um, that's what I always say to people. Ask questions, definitely ask questions. Try not to, I'm not gonna say don't, but try not to. Cause it could be really difficult in the moment to even just talk about your own [00:14:00] name, never mind talk about the names of medication and try to understand these medications.
[00:14:04] If you can. Great. If you can't no problem. There's still time to talk and try to understand these medications and look at your options. So, absolutely of course, medication is an option as well. Then there's also talk therapy, counseling, stroke, psychotherapy, and pretty much the same thing. Um, they're interchangeable depends on where you are.
[00:14:22] I think Ireland would be kind of talking more so that psychotherapists, whereas say in Australia there, you kind of would use it less, the word psychotherapy and talk about, uh, counselors. Um, So basically they're the same thing. They're talk, talk therapy, where very, basically you go to see a professional person and talk to them about what's going on for you and they help you.
[00:14:50] And as we, I think we spoke a little before, but there's this over. There's lots of different approaches. There's lots of different ways. Very basically they'll all talking. We'll [00:15:00] be at the core of it. Um, So that is the other option then as well of like, you can go to your GP. Sometimes you can, you know, you go to your GP and they will refer you on to a psychotherapist counselor, or there's, there's also going straight to a counselor and psychotherapist and, or a psychotherapist.
[00:15:20] Um, And yeah, just telling them what's going on. And that's where, you know, psychotherapists and, um, and GPS would also kind of review what's going on in front of them, um, with the situation with the person what's going on for the person. So. If, um, if it was, if there was suicidal ideation, you know, I don't know, that's extreme to Australia to say it straight away, but you know, it's definitely something that's real.
[00:15:49] And I know, um, there's like people are going through a really extremely difficult time, very peaked, difficult time at the moment. So it's a, it's a very real thing there. And I think it's important to [00:16:00] talk about it. Um, so you'll, you'll have a look at the situation and you'll talk to the person. You'll see.
[00:16:07] Or are they kind of, was it something that was just a fleeting thing that came up for them or is this a consistent ideation and, you know, and if it was, if you, if you're going to that, um, to that more, I don't want to say extreme end cause you, yeah. Um, to, to, if you're going to more of a very real strong feeling of suicidal, suicidal thoughts or suicidal ideation, um, that's when you'd be kind of looking at, um, maybe talking to the GP, um, possible, you know, Um, possibly looking at getting to see a psychiatrist, um, it could be a, an inpatient visit to a hospital.
[00:16:45] Um, and these things sound scary, but it's like, if you, if you've put a plain and simple as that, look, do you want to get better? Do you want to stop feeling shit? It's like, yeah. Okay. Well, this is what we kind of need to do. And if you do go to a [00:17:00] psych yeah. Patrick, um, department, or a mental health department of a hospital, again, it can seem scary because I'm movies and stuff like that.
[00:17:08] And you know, we think like Erica and silo and Batman and psychiatric, Oh, look, it doesn't really help, unfortunately, with those kinds of things, but lots of the doctors and nurses there, they're just they're sound people. And try to kind of think of that. Cause I'm talking to the people that, that, that might be going on for them right now.
[00:17:26] Very basic put the professional side of things to the side. There are sound people they're people that you might see else when you're drinking or when you're, when you go for a walk or that you might know them. So they're that kind of person. They're just good. Decent people. And then bring back in that side part with they're very professional, very well-informed were very, well-trained educated people around this and that's the job is to, is to try and help.
[00:17:51] So try to try to put away those old kind of myths and those old, um, I can't think of the word that [00:18:00] those old they're not running around wearing scarecrow masks exactly. On a night harm. You're on anything like that. Like they're there your brother and sister that your auntie, your uncle, your cousin, and chances are one of them might be your cousin, you know, that they've trained in nursing or something like that.
[00:18:15] They want to help you. But like I said, that's the strong end of things. If suicidal ideation, wasn't a more, you escalate to that. I'd say the majority, isn't the majority. You could just go straight to call up a counselor in your local area. There's lots of different places you can go online in Ireland.
[00:18:30] It's the IECP is one of the main ones is I think, yeah, it's the main one. The Irish association of counseling and psychotherapists. Um, You, you know, you can go online, you can check different profiles and stuff like that. They have lots of information there. There's also lots of charities in Ireland in Australia, the, the aide, the, the ACA, the Australian counseling association.
[00:18:49] There's lots of different associations all over the world and different countries and stuff like that. And there's lots of stuff online. Um, you know, just if you've just Googled government mental health [00:19:00] information, um, because the, the governmental things is there, there are quite often good in there quite often, um, backup, uh, you're able to back them up, um, They'd be able to direct you in the appropriate way to sit, to find a psychotherapist.
[00:19:13] Another part on that is you may not get the right quote unquote right fit straight away. It is absolutely worth sticking with us on again. I really understand and appreciate this. It's easier to do that when you're not in the depths of something. Um, but if you're in the depths of something you're, you're, you're you're phrase you're.
[00:19:37] You know, Um, yeah, you're, you're, you're afraid you, your head's just like more, so you might just kind of only have the feel like you only have the energy to give it one, go with one person, but it's definitely about trying to do try and, and you'll find the right fit. I know, kind of, I saw someone before and just what definitely wasn't the right fit for me then saw someone else and it was the right fit [00:20:00] for a little while.
[00:20:00] Um, and then I found my therapist and she was just unbelievable. Um, You know, and, and, and it's, so it's definitely something to kind of stick with. So does, there's a few different paths you can go down to get that, like I said, straight to the GP, does it or options within that then straight to it, or, and, or straight to a, um, a therapist or counselor or there's lots of different organizations as well.
[00:20:24] Um, there's also, like I said, go to talk to a family member or a friend, cause it can be good to just talk, you know, And, and get it out there and get an idea because they might have a bit of an experience as well. I'm also conscious of sometimes. Yeah. But I talk to, so I talked to a family member and he said, you'll suck it up and get on with us.
[00:20:43] Don't leave it there. Just say, okay, thanks. I'll have a look. Don't just leave it there. You know, do try to explore it. Um,
[00:20:53] Chris: [00:20:53] yeah, that's the whole normalized, not minimize mantra we're trying to get across. Right, exactly. [00:21:00] And you know, back to the 18 year old. Do I take the medication? Is it as is quick fix? Is there a microwave solution to how I feel?
[00:21:11] I go to a GP and the GP just says, writes me a prescription for whatever the, um, medication he or she wants to prescribe. And they tell me that it might take trial and error. It might take a little bit of time. It might make me feel worse for. Several weeks. I know you're not a doctor, but should I take the meds?
[00:21:34] Noel: [00:21:34] And that's what, I'm that sort of thing. Like I'm not medically approved to be saying, take meds or not take meds the way I I'm coming from this. Just so people know, is that just again, from experience professional and personal than just kind of general knowledge, so I'm not specialized in saying the meds do exactly this kind of thing.
[00:21:51] Um, but like that's a, you're going to professional. Th th the, say the GP and that's, that's where they're specialized in [00:22:00] it. And that's what I was saying earlier. Like ask as much as he can as best you can. And again, I know it's kind of your head, it could be motion on the day, but that's why, like, if your head clear as a few days later, a few weeks later, definitely go.
[00:22:11] But I always go back and try to try to throw to talk through it and understand that as much as you can. Um, It's doing what's right for you. Some people hate medication. Some people medications away from me. Um, some people are kind of like what medication can do. I've seen lots of instances is that it can, it can certainly help.
[00:22:33] It can give you a stable, it can stabilize your foundation, you know, um, and help you kind of . Um, it, yeah, it gives you the, what you call it, the hormones, hormones, and stuff like that. They can just stabilize those. So if you can imagine your foundations on the nature is shaken and you're trying to pull it up, Dell spike on, on the, um, uh, back in the [00:23:00] press.
[00:23:00] Yeah. It's really tricky. If the flip for the flourish shake, it's really, really hard. It's, it's the fancy Delta that, you know, the fancy China, that, that only comes out once a year. Um, but if you're able to just stabilize the foundation, it's still really delicate job. Put you're better able to do it. And medication can do that for people.
[00:23:16] Some people, the types of medication, the benefit of medication is say plus three, but the thought in their head, that fact that I'm on medication and there can be side effects. And, you know, that's what I'm saying is talk and understand that as much as you can. Yes. There can be side effects, um, that like the side effects and the under parts of the wrong medication could be like, Minus four, but the benefits of the medication could be plus three, but overall they're at a minus.
[00:23:43] So they kind of just want to come away from it there again, it can be trial and error. And again, I'm always really conscious. It can sound like if it's, these are people, this is someone's life. Like, you know, it's I have to try it out. I don't. Certainly as professionals do not mean it in that way. It's M [00:24:00] as in like, say, if you're trying to knock it like a little shelf to get her, our trailer arrow.
[00:24:04] Sure. We'll just fire a few nails into that. Now that's totally different. There is an element of trial and error, but remember these professionals, whether it's therapists, GPS, nurses, psychiatrists, they are, they genuinely are. They're trying their best to kind of figure this out. And, and, um, it's, it's worth noting that.
[00:24:21] So does no. There is no quick fix to this that there's not there's there's, I wouldn't say quicker fixes there's some, some are more longer term, some are shorter term. Um, and yeah, it, it, again, it just comes down to come down to each person. I know there's kind of wit with the, with the limits of, of budgets and unfortunately it's a re it's, it's very unfortunate, but it's real.
[00:24:49] Um, financial constraints and stuff like that, or lack of funding to different kind of, you know, to parts of any health service all over the world. It's always on the phone funded, particularly mental health [00:25:00] services have been underfunded. They're not valued. They're they're are being valued more, um, but still massively undervalued.
[00:25:09] So there is, uh, there can be a bit of a kind of short. Falling in the, in the level of care that can be provided, just because of lack of staffing and, and different kinds of things like that. Or it can be a little bit easier to, um, label pigeonhole people and write that to you passed up and go off. Um, uh, unfortunately, uh, that it is real.
[00:25:29] It doesn't mean to Troy put it Israel. Um, certainly doesn't mean it's right, but as I say, it is, it is a real scenario there. Um, so it's not just one quick fix. Sometimes it's just right. We just need to keep you going. Um, and I know, can
[00:25:46] Chris: [00:25:46] I ask you, um, there's seems to be loads of people have been telling me that there's different types of therapy and whatever, but you know, I haven't done any research, so.
[00:25:59] Hmm, it [00:26:00] does. Is there a type of therapy that I should get for my element or how I feel, you know, um, should I shop around, you know, what do I need to do to figure out what type of therapy I need to get, or do I need to see a psychologist? And, you know, what's the difference
[00:26:15] Noel: [00:26:15] the, I suppose for us that's and that's where you'd be talking to the person you it's trying to understand, like, well, Would you prefer to just talk or what do you feel you need?
[00:26:24] Would you would, do you feel you need some feedback? Um, are, do you want to just come in and just talk about it? I've just stopped. So I don't want, I don't want anyone talking over me and that's where you kind of look at a person centered kind of place. There could be. I just, I need some structure and, you know, um, I need some real direction and that's where kind of CBT cognitive behavioral therapy will come in where.
[00:26:48] There will be, um, charter will not charted it's professional when they say, um, by the way, when I say charter, I mean, professional talk, um, There will be talk and dialogue between clients and therapists, [00:27:00] but there could be, you know, homework goals, um, goal setting, kind of different kind of models, strategies, and things like that to use.
[00:27:08] Then there could be someone could even go into the realms of it. There's not in particularly going on, but they want kind of. Do you want to be coached and that's where life coaching? No, there's a lot of, there's a massive amount of overlap between counseling and life coaching, but the, the, the terms of engagement and the, and the kind of the contracting would be a lot different where it is very kind of therapist led and directive, um, far more directive, or you could have, you could have someone that's, um, they really want to go back and understand their past, you know, more psycho psychoanalytical kind of thing.
[00:27:42] And. So there's those, they're the main kind of areas where you could go. There's lots of, there are lots of different kinds of ways to go around that. A lot more therapists are kind of. Going in different ways or not going in different ways. They're, [00:28:00] they're using a few different things. So that integrative approach like, like myself, um, there's, there's also people that would particularly focus, focus on like trauma focused therapy.
[00:28:11] So as in traumas, as different events, significant events in people's lives, not just significant events, more often than not significant events, but it could be. As, as a perceived small event, but it it's still is a trauma and has an effect on the person. Um, there can be things like, um, somatic. I know, I know therapists that use somatic movements.
[00:28:31] So sematic movement is kind of like yoga and, um, what sort of things like yoga, Palato. Um, but it's not like that at all. It's it's um, Yeah, so it's kind of like yoga and Pilates, but it's nice. That's the closest thing I know. That sounds a bit weird. It's very slow, subtle movements and it's allowing yourself to, so, so you'd be talking with the therapist and noticing what's going on in your body and releasing [00:29:00] that in your body.
[00:29:01] I'm sure. Lots of people listen to this that have tried yoga have been in yoga. Maybe it's the first or second session of yoga and they just, they get upset because the body holds a lot of trauma, your body what's it. Um, whose book was at the body keeps the score or Bessel
[00:29:16] Chris: [00:29:16] van der Kolk. I was just about to witness.
[00:29:19] It's an incredible book about yep. And how would the body, um, Managers to store, uh, emotional baggage over time. And, um, he speaks at length about the prescription of yoga to people suffering from post-traumatic stress are traumatic life events because of that release, that emotion release that can happen.
[00:29:41] And I've, I've been personally in yoga class where, uh, I've witnessed people breaking down, especially in certain poses, uh, people who have. Been victims of, uh, you know, sexual abuse, et cetera, when you're in certain poses that, uh, remind you [00:30:00] of situations are bringing up emotions that you may have felt that, that you have been, um, you know, basically pushing down, um, it brings it up and it can happen.
[00:30:12] And no one I want to ask as well. Yeah. If I start therapy, Do I need it forever. How long do I do it for
[00:30:25] Noel: [00:30:25] the word need is interesting to me. I'll come back to the pain prior to put the knee. The need part is really interesting because it's not, it's not about saying, Oh, you need therapy. It's it's the way it's not condescending.
[00:30:39] It's not, I don't know what the word I'm looking for is I just, there's something kind of unsettled. That not sits, right. It doesn't sit right. Went to say, you need, it's like, I'm telling you what you need is like, I'll let the person figure out what they need. Um, As opposed to John, I think this could be useful for you.
[00:30:54] I'm just, and I keep saying that because as we were talking about, we we'd like people to be able to talk about [00:31:00] this and talk about to her friends and stuff like that. And it's about using the more appropriate language about it. Just to get the message across kind of, as I always say, look, if you've got a, if you've got a message, anything is valuable honorous as in give it the best opportunity to be heard.
[00:31:13] Um, so, um, do I need that? Do I need it forever? No, you don't. Absolutely not. Some people could like. You, you, you could be there for one or two sessions and just something happens. And just it's like for all your life, you've taught one plus one equals three and then for everything else. So all your songs have been just born a half, but then in that session or two or three sessions, like a short period, relatively short period of time, you figured out that, Oh, one plus one equals two.
[00:31:45] Oh wow. So everything just falls into place. Kind of like. It knits it's way back, you know, backwards and everything clicks for people. Some people, it can, it, it can take a few years to go to a lot of stuff. And this was something that was said to me [00:32:00] fairly early doors. And it was, it was said to me, in a way as in to try and help you as a therapist to kind of, you don't have to fix everyone straightaway because that is important.
[00:32:08] Um, that kind of like this person has been living with this for 30 years, say, no, you see them for one hour. Every week or every two weeks or whatever, you know, and it's kind of, it's, it's, it's just to remind you like for that as in the therapist, but also then it's something to remember for the, for the client.
[00:32:27] It takes it at a time and it's um, so, and it can be a great place to say, you know what, so you're working on that for a week. Yes. There's still lots of stuff there. That's okay. You can park the stuff. You can have a look at it. You can, uh, you know, park us and that's something we'll definitely come back to, you know, the scales of compartmentalizing things and parking things, but you can park it in the room with the client, or sorry with the, with the therapist, you go off, live your life during the week or couple of weeks or whatever, and you can kind of come back to it.
[00:32:52] Um, it depends on your choice as well. Look, you have a choice in this, but if you say, you know, I just have it. Pain in my ass with this now [00:33:00] view week, and I really enjoy it, but I just don't want to go for a while. So I'm going to leave it and we'll come back to it in a few years. If I, if I feel the need there's no, yes or no, there's no this way or that way.
[00:33:10] There's loads of different ways, whatever way you want to do it. Some therapies are purist. CBT would be six to stand sessions. That would be the one of the most common ones where it'd be six to 10 sessions that, um, It's it's quite focused. It's quite goal orientated and that suits some people, some people, it doesn't, um, you know, so does the length of time can depend on what the person's going through.
[00:33:37] It can depend on the type of therapy being used as well. Um, and again, that's one of the reasons why we're doing this. We're trying to get it out there. So just. Give a bit of guidance on people to people.
[00:33:48] Chris: [00:33:48] That's the whole idea of, um, yeah. You know, you'll see across our socials and different things that we keep referencing, join the conversation.
[00:33:56] Um, you know, that isn't just some, you [00:34:00] know, disingenuous, marketing, speak what we mean by joining the conversation. It doesn't have to be with us. We don't, you don't have to engage with us. What we mean is you speak openly to anyone who will listen. Because, you know, I referred in episode zero to ripple effects and butterfly effects.
[00:34:17] The effects of speaking to someone about your own vulnerability is profound. I've experienced this on multiple occasions. When you say to someone, how you actually feel when someone says to you, how are you doing? And you say, I'm not doing too well at the moment. I'm struggling. You know, I've done this in the gym a few times now, and I've really built connections with people on.
[00:34:41] At deeper level, because I've said, this is my story. I do battle with depression, it's cyclical and, you know, often aggressive and progressive. And at the moment I'm feeling well or at the moment I, uh, I really struggling, you know, um, and the gym as, uh, a place of [00:35:00] solace for me. Um, it's a place of mindfulness, you know, it's been a place that I could go to for, um, week over week for years.
[00:35:09] And. Find time to be with myself. And, you know, I, I went to a CrossFit gym and you can be with other people that are synchrony there too. But that idea of joining the conversation is, you know, if you're a young girl, you're a young girl or you're in your mid twenties and you, you just joined the, uh, you know, job ladder and everything around you is preaching productivity and it's preaching, uh, you know, mastery and success.
[00:35:38] And you. You know whether consciously or subconsciously are part of this dominance hierarchy and, you know, consumer culture, uh, you know, romanticism, all of what I would consider the failings of modern day society. Um, you should speak to someone if you don't feel well, you should tell someone that [00:36:00] you found it difficult to get out of bed this morning, or you can't look your partner in the eye.
[00:36:07] Yeah. At the moment or, you know, You're pushing some emotions down or you feel angry a lot and you, you can't tell why you should talk to someone. Absolutely.
[00:36:18] Noel: [00:36:18] And that's it, it would definitely be the better option if you can. But like that, some people are, lots of people just don't have the language. They don't know how they're like, it just becomes a bottleneck in them.
[00:36:28] It's like, I've got a million pages of words that I want to give you right now. And it just, and then the mouse just goes, yeah, not today, chief. It's just not happening. It just doesn't. This is John and it's absolutely. Yeah, it's trying to give that language and try to try to give the language, trying to give the understanding just that it's it's, you know, and that's why we want to get lots of different therapists on that two different approaches as well, because to give different angles, this is just remember, this is just, I'm just one therapist of thousands.
[00:36:56] This is my angle on it. This is my experience. And that's, we'll have lots of [00:37:00] different therapists and different people on that. You know, we'll have the sports jock, we'll have the geeky gamer that we'll have the, the. The whatever I am, you know, we've had all, all the different kinds of things in between.
[00:37:12] That's for people to kind of go, Oh well, he's and that's, it's trying to get the evidence of, because I want to have where you'll get someone listening, they're going to go, well, where's the evidence of someone like me, we'll talk. And by having as many different people as we can on, and we will. I'll have the evidence going to go there.
[00:37:30] That person's quite like you, they're not the exact same as you, but they're in your bracket. Whatever brackets is something that you mentioned there just to come back to it was about work. And one of the really common things that I come across is, and it's happened so many times that someone, uh, they'll they'll draw it themselves into the ground.
[00:37:48] Because there's an a COVID, there is an underlying mental health issue there, or they're just feeling so stressed that I just, you know, for, you know, physically, and then at men mentally, they just exhaust themselves [00:38:00] and they finally just, something just breaks and it's kind of, it would have been an idea that they said it, they flagged it a few months ago or weeks ago with their supervisor or boss or line manager or whatever.
[00:38:09] But something happens and it's almost like the boss will come over and say, look, I think you need Tomar here. And then you go off and then they started talking. And then so many times it's happened where the boss ends up going, by the way. Either directly to the bus or, or indirectly as indirectly being the bus will go or the manager go.
[00:38:26] Sure. What'd you think? Oh, he was off for three weeks last year. I'm the person that be gone. Shit. I didn't think. Or after that, that didn't happen to me, but it happened to my brother and my sister or my wife or my husband or whatever it is. And that's. That's such a common thing. And it just leads me to that.
[00:38:43] Like, I always loved that example of crocodile crocodiles on death. It was a forest film and he thought he had to Sue and Mick and sewer talk and, and, uh, she's talking about therapists or something like that or whatever way it came up on a mic. I was like, what's a therapist. And she goes, Oh, it's somewhere that you go up, you go to and talk about your [00:39:00] problems.
[00:39:00] And she goes, you know, I have that where you come from because we have Wally. Well, he tells everyone else, then it's not a problem anymore. And that's, that's what it is. Like, that's a film that I highly recommend is called Lars and the real girl. Um, Oh, what? Great movie. Yes. Oh, you saw that hurting or for a long time ago?
[00:39:21] Yeah, a long, long time ago. And one of the beauty, most beautiful parts of it. I loved because he was this guy going through something and it was just because it was a small town. They all just accepted him for who he is. And that's such a common thing as well. Um, Johann Harry talks about, was it Johan?
[00:39:39] Harry was, I think was Johan. Yes. And we'll definitely come back to Johan and stuff that he's talked about. All other things, college connections and different stuff like that, but it was, it was like, Oh, okay. What do you need? Okay, you need that. Okay. You might be a bit off. You might be there's something going on there for you.
[00:39:52] Okay. But we'll support you. We'll normalize that it, you know, normalize you is that, that is part of what's going on and unwelcomed, [00:40:00] because if we ask someone, what are the. Let's put it like this. If someone's gone perfect in life, quote unquote. Perfect. And they're fine, they're flying. And they genuinely are.
[00:40:10] Everything's going really good. And you, and you want to make hatch a plan. Now this isn't not saying this is what you should do to do. Did someone do this to someone? But if you asked her, sorry, somebody, you cast them out to the side, you'll mess them up. So. Reverse engineer that, so, okay. Well, if we want it not mess on someone or if we want to help someone that's feeling off or not in a great place, how about we welcome them?
[00:40:37] And if you bring that all the way back to psychotherapy room, the core conditions are there. And even if someone says, no, I'm not into. Um, uh, Carol Rogers person centered therapy, like everything about therapy is a person I'm meeting the therapist, meeting the client of where they are at and making them feel welcome.
[00:40:55] No therapy. If there is a therapy, I wouldn't recommend it to her. Like it's [00:41:00] making you feel awkward in a nasty way. It's like, come on in. What do you need? You're welcome here. And that's, you know, that's, that's a really important kind of part. I don't, I'm not sure how we got to that place, but, you know, it was I suppose talking, but that that's part of it.
[00:41:13] The, it was just, yeah. When you were talking about the, the, um, you know, the stuff at work and, and being able to talk about it is it's such a common once you actually just get it out there. And that's how I love that thing. And day and, and, and the rail girl, and it was just the whole thing about welcoming being, feeling welcomed and just kind of going, Oh yeah.
[00:41:29] Okay. There you go. And, and especially with, with teenagers and young adults, Like it's, it's a huge thing. And, and with the social media, like, it's you think just the world is going to end and something happens and something gets posted and all these WhatsApp groups and different stuff like that are online and in-store ticks and all that, like different things get posted.
[00:41:48] I like just, just try and see through this moment. Try to as best you can try and see through this moment. I am, because today I think one of the same. Yeah, go ahead. [00:42:00] Sorry, sorry. Sorry. No, I think, I think just when you mentioned that about, about work and unlike your boss and still fuck, I think one of the things, the best thing that I ever did, I, when I first started my career, I used to work in advertising, different creative agencies in that, and my first like proper job out of college.
[00:42:16] And I was that guy. That Chris described minus the good locks and sports abilities and cool hair. Actually, actually, actually it was that guy minus, but, uh, I was out of college and I went to my first job and, you know, straight into the big, bad world of working in office. And after about a year, they're like advertising is a, is a, is an intense game.
[00:42:38] You know, it's, it's a lot of deadlines, a lot of pressure. There's a lot of moving parts and, uh, you know, I started to feel. Really under pressure. I started February side and just for other reasons, and I didn't really know what was going on with me, but I knew I, I was just struggling to be in the office and my manager was just such an amazing woman.
[00:42:57] Like she was so, so, so, so understanding about [00:43:00] that kind of thing. And I, I had this, like in me that I knew I could just tell her. So I remember I rang her one day, uh, One Sunday. And I was like, look, I'm sorry to call you on a Sunday, but I can't come to work this week. I was like, I knew, I knew I needed like a week of time.
[00:43:18] And I just said, look, I know I can't come in. Um, So for you to, to bring that up in the forest play, if you don't mind me asking, take a loss or did you just to be honest, it didn't take a lot, but I, I don't really have, like, I've never felt any sort of shame. Luckily I've never felt any sort of shame or I've never felt, uh, that those things were hard to talk about.
[00:43:40] Like, and I think that I put that down to my friend group. I've been very lucky that like, my mates are very like, I was going to say it because you've called it and that duck shows you that. So that's why I say talk to friend groups and also create friend groups as well as like kind of feed back into that, like, um, the.
[00:44:00] [00:44:00] Like your friend groups in particular can be really important. And you, and you mentioned in the previous episode where like Dan, um, your, your, your group of friends, different group of friends and different interests and stuff like that. So yes, it would be a group of friends that could be seen as like they could get slag and they could get this and they could get that from other people.
[00:44:19] But that's what can kind of niches in together because you have that common kind of, thing of the difference. Um, I'm considered a bit different, but I'm actually just not different. I'm just the main, this is it. And I, I wondered all right. If that would have enough Wrangler. Yeah. But I think, I think like, you know, when I, when I said that to her though, like I just, I think it's maybe because I had that confidence from my friend group and I just was like, Hey, listen, I'm not, well, I can't come in.
[00:44:43] I'm I'm sad. I'm just really sad. And I remember her just being like, Literally not awkward with me. No thing. Just, yeah. Daniel take as much time as you need. Well, we've got you covered here. Don't worry. You just look after yourself. And then when I, and then the whole week I was fine, but then I started experiencing like this crazy anxiety about [00:45:00] coming back to work after that week, because I was like, Oh, I know that people talk.
[00:45:03] And like my team probably know, and yeah. But everyone came back in and it was like no special treatment, no little Molly. Colleen was like, here, you gotta do this now. And it was totally fine and totally normal. And then like, just checking in on me. But then when I had to do the same thing, about two years later in a different company, it was an entirely different story.
[00:45:19] It was like, I, I, again, I was, I was having a low period and I just rang up. I said, look, I'm sorry. I can't make it to work. And I got, I was met with like, Oh, um, well, w when you, when are you coming back? I was like, I don't know, like I'm, I'm not well, like, you know, I can't tell you how long my chest infection would be.
[00:45:37] It would be there. If I had a chest infection, you wouldn't ask me that, you know, so it was just like totally different scenario. It is, it's a tricky one and it's getting very, yeah, no, absolutely. And it's kind of getting more knowledge about it and different things. I thought at some point, even that there are people have the knowledge and it's just an underwriter, they don't care about not just, you know, that the that's part of it as well.
[00:45:57] Um, and, and again, [00:46:00] it's. It's very, it's important to acknowledge that. Yes, we're talking about here and this is quite idealistic and it's a great thing to aim towards. Absolutely. It is. It's also important to acknowledge because it'd be people out there to become thinking yes. Easy for you guys to say it now and all that.
[00:46:13] And, but there are some scenarios where do you know. Because like that it could be a cultural business and you're trying to make payments financially. And so, and you're not able, you're just not able to say it to you. You're about to have your boss cause you know, well, if I say it, I could either lose my job.
[00:46:26] I could get pushed out or shown doubt or I could just be, geez, I was almost better off. They're going to keep it to myself, judging by their reaction. Um, cause it's important. I would have gladly lost my job over over that. To be honest with you. If, if, if I was working for somewhere that didn't respect.
[00:46:41] Yeah, that's of me then I wouldn't want to work there. And I think everyone should have that opinion as well that they should, they quote unquote, should, um, we'd like them to have that, but they don't. And the fact that you have the ability and felt the ability to be able to say that would be also. You know, [00:47:00] coincide with the, the feeling within yourself to say, you know what, if that's not, if that's not for you, then I'm not for your company, but there definitely are people that just don't have that confidence that understanding the it within themselves or the, the, the, the financial freedom maybe sometimes sit to, to kind of, to be able to just step back away from it, which is, which is really, really unfortunate, but it is important to acknowledge that as well, that it's not just, Oh, you're wrong for doing that.
[00:47:23] It's like, yeah, it's, it's just trying to. Try to keep chipping away as best you can and get yourself into a place where you're able to just say, you know what, if this isn't for me, then I need to step back. And I'm as well as that speaking to employers put it like this, but like, so I use a sports analogy for this, right?
[00:47:41] So you're a manager and managing a team 36 36 games in the season ahead. And you're at one of your players. You're really, it's really a, you're a midfielders are really important player for you. They get injured in the first game. Don't tell you, say nothing. Okay. Keep it, keep it up. Not say absolutely nothing.
[00:47:59] I'm [00:48:00] getting maybe 60% out of them and they keep going. Keep going for another five games buying gone. That's it. Rest of the season and into the next season because screws them over or handle POS. Um, ghost, I'm going to miss, maybe through the form. I need to sit out these tree gangs put up the right. Well, do you want to miss them for say four games, five games, and you'll have them for the romaine and 31.
[00:48:25] At full tilt or have the mass 60%, 50%, 40% for five games, and then they're gone. And for them, the majority of time, that's what's going on. I was like, no, get yourself. Right? Because then by giving you the freedom, you're more likely to get, get better quicker. And then stay and be able to stay for longer because you know, you have it in your butt, in the back of your mind because like there's anxiety breeds anxiety.
[00:48:55] So if you're anxious about water, if I have to say this again, then you're going to be more anxious, which you're going to be more [00:49:00] upset, which you're more likely to eat. It need to say is, whereas if you're going to go, no, I know we can go there, but just, just knowing that I can be like, you don't have to, you don't, it's like, I know I have the stuff there if I need it.
[00:49:13] And just knowing that you have it there. You quite often don't need to use it. Um, and I thought it is an important one for employers then to kind of look at that and as well as it does a huge part, different kind of parts of it. And an unfortunate reality
[00:49:26] Chris: [00:49:26] though, is that it's, um, it's uncommon. And, um, I think our goal is to, you know, Don's anecdote there where the employer was, obviously self-aware.
[00:49:40] Probably had her own history with our new someone. I was able to, um, be empathetic. We need to have to reverberate, uh, throughout society. Uh, you know, I think it's becoming more and more prevalent now to speak openly about the mind. Um, [00:50:00] you know, mental have, uh, is becoming a common, um, you know, uh, the speaking point and.
[00:50:09] People are starting to see that there isn't this fictitious divide between the mind and the body. No, and that is very, very important because people see, uh, sickness and, um, it's one of the reasons why, uh, people have to be clinically diagnosed with depression is because it gives them, um, Somewhat of a badge to say that this is pathologized, a doctor has seen me.
[00:50:36] Yeah. I have the stump. I have, I have this or that I can, like, I don't know. I have to go to work. But your, your story there about, you know, the, the midfielder is absolutely correct. That is exactly how a coach should approach it, but not enough of us have the emotional intelligence. Um, first of all, [00:51:00] Uh, introspectively about ourselves, but secondly, um, you know, to the wider world and the people that are around us, our peers, to be able to think like that, to put ourselves in their shoes or to think, um, you know, on a macro perspective or go a little bit wider or go a little bit deeper to understand that yes, this person needs to take some time off time off, but I just want to round off the first segment, the first 40 minutes of the discussion, essentially.
[00:51:27] No. Yeah. Therapy is for everyone. Anyone who feels like they need someone to talk to can avail of therapy fortunately, or unfortunately, sorry. It is unfortunate that there's no fortune to it. Most people have to pay for it privately. There are, um, uh, means that you can go through the public system to do it, but.
[00:51:50] At the very least you need to speak to the people around you. And if you've, it falls on deaf ears and if it falls on, um, you know, rejection [00:52:00] or mockery, or if you're made to feel less because you've opened up then. Don't take that, you know, don't take the first slap as what it would be from everyone. Move on, speak to someone that will perhaps be more empathetic and, you know, build, you know, it is said, um, often that where to some of the five people closest to us, make sure that the people you're surrounding yourself to are positive people that will be empathetic and will help you.
[00:52:28] Um, I just want to move on to another piece. I want to focus on you a little bit. No, but to round off that piece of discussion, um, I often like to seek, uh, contradictory evidence, um, You know, confirmation bias being what it is. Uh, you know, our feeds on Facebook and Instagram and Twitter and Tik TOK, they're all algorithmically based and they presented to us essentially what advertisers want us to see and what they, the algorithm thinks that we want.
[00:52:55] Um, to see again and again and again. So it kind of pigeonholes our, um, [00:53:00] intellect into this kind of very narrow frame. So if you want to learn a little bit about. Uh, it meant that how about perhaps taking medication or therapy or why it happens and you know what to do about depression? I'd recommend a couple of, uh, starker books, no reference to you on Harry there.
[00:53:17] You and Harry has a fantastic book called lost connections and the book focuses on, uh, very broadly on depression and anxiety, and it looks at it from a sociological perspective, uh, E. What are the psycho social factors that are affecting us that are causing this kind of know worldwide pandemic of, uh, mental health disorders and mental health illnesses?
[00:53:41] Uh, another book, um, like Johan is very much against, uh, the medication. Uh, you know, the whole idea behind SSRI is the serotonin. Um, and he calls it the serotonin myth. Now, if you, if, if I read that book, cause I, I don't take medication at the moment. And if I read [00:54:00] that book, uh, it confirmed everything I believe.
[00:54:02] And if I never read anything else, then I would be going around the world telling everyone that you shouldn't take meds. Okay. But I would read that in conjunction with two other books, one is called a noon noon day demon by a guy called Andrew Solomon, who. You know, when he recommends, when it's a life or death situation, you should absolutely consider the drugs.
[00:54:21] And the next one is Jordan Peter. Peterson's 12 rules for life, where he tries to develop a level of personal autonomy and self-responsibility and days. And he also recommends if it's a life or death situation, take the medication, you know, don't be too tough to take it. If you are suffering with suicidal ideations and it's a long-term thing.
[00:54:42] Then, if your doctor recommends it and you know, if you want to do the research, do it, but, uh, you know, don't let this, um, you know, be the, the factor that leads you to, to ending your life. You know, first and foremost, it speak to someone. Secondly, if you need to take the medication, take the [00:55:00] medication. But I think that rounds that off knowing I want to give a couple of minutes just to, you can go ahead.
[00:55:06] You don't want to make the last
[00:55:07] Noel: [00:55:07] point. No, no, no, not necessarily a point, but they're just, there's a really good website that I find. Cause it's lots of different. Um, Not just opinion pieces, but just different, different perspective pieces, a website they're mighty.com. Um, just lots of different articles from different people, different mental health conditions and different view points and different things like that.
[00:55:28] It's a really good place to have a read for different opinions and different perspectives on things. Um, yeah, it was just it just to put that, put that one in there. So brilliant.
[00:55:35] Chris: [00:55:35] I'll include all of these in our episode companion. So if you, if you want to receive the episode companion. Sign up to the, um, the newsletter and sign up, um, and, uh, give us your email.
[00:55:47] We'll reciprocate by giving you a free, uh, basically cliff notes of the show. Anything we speak about here, anything that I would advise or books that we've read or places we could, uh, uh, potentially lead you to prefer [00:56:00] to learning. There'll be in this short email that we get every week along with the, um, the show itself, but not, I just want to spend a few minutes.
[00:56:09] Yeah, digging in on, on your story. Okay. Because you are a protagonist in this story. Um, and I, I have known you for a long time for four or five years, but I don't really know you, uh, you sit on opposite sides of the table and the, you know, power structure of, uh, a therapist, client being what it is. I talk primarily you listen.
[00:56:34] No, I don't really often you do tell them your anecdotes and I really appreciate when you do, because it helps to put things in perspective for me, but I don't get to ask you questions. And I want to ask you a couple of questions if that's okay. Okay. So the first one is okay, and I've always wanted to do this.
[00:56:51] How are you?
[00:56:53] Noel: [00:56:53] I'm good. And life is full on, you know, moving to Australia, three kids. [00:57:00] Um, You're kept going. It's trying to set up a practice, trying to set up a podcast who that it was that one and put up I'm joy. I enjoy it. Thankfully. I'm very lucky. Place and part of the world being welcomed in by Australia and Australian people and the community, which is really fantastic.
[00:57:19] It makes a big difference. Um, but like, yeah, just like anyone else, you kind of have your stuff day-to-day as a normal person doors. Um, it does help what I've been through and what I know to kind of help, you know, kind of just put the. Put what you're kind of put what you're talking about in work, um, to enter practice and not, it that's one of the, one of the many good parts of, of the work that we do.
[00:57:42] It's a real kind of an early practice, a much a preacher, um, which is very lucky to have that. And, and it is important that you do that. Um, yeah, so I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm quite full at the moment. Not busy. Could get busy, sort of different. What, I mean [00:58:00] difference between busy and full. Uh, someone mentioned that to me a few years ago.
[00:58:06] Um, it busy when we're kind of with loads of stuff on what you're kind of just running around and not really present and connected with it and fully enjoying it right. As opposed to fall is that yes, you still have loads of stuff on, but you're fairly well connected with it. Um, so yeah, I'm quite quite full.
[00:58:26] At the moment and enjoying it and enjoying this nervous about all this, this is, you know, it's, it's definitely out of my comfort zone and, um, yeah, well, again, as I often say to people lean into it and that's, it was one of the reasons why, again, another reason why to do it years ago, I would have just gone.
[00:58:42] Oh, overwhelmed, gone. And that's I touched on it before. It's very. Episode zero, just as we were about to start recording, I was just totally froze. And that would have been the perfect metaphor for my life. It was before it was just, Oh, that's it gone? No, I'm not allowed to that's me. God, I'm not doing it anymore.
[00:58:57] Now take a breath, go, go at it [00:59:00] again. And here we are. And just, you know, like an absolute pronoun to stage.
[00:59:06] Chris: [00:59:06] I think that's really important for people to hear because, um, too many of us are, um, victims of the allure of perfection, right? Everyone sees perfection all around them. It's in their Instagram feed.
[00:59:20] You know, they see these intellectuals on, on Twitter and our sphere of understanding of the world and, and, and things that can influence us has become globalized. Everything can influence us now. It's not just where we're from it or, um, you know, our, our local town or our, our, our group of friends, but, uh, understanding that we are all imperfect.
[00:59:42] No, we are all equally imperfect. Some of us more, uh, that for me is
[00:59:48] Noel: [00:59:48] perfection. It's it's it's it's. That's exactly what, like, if you have a cake, if you have a cake and the cake is amazing, tastes unbelievable. One of the ingredients that our cake is just [01:00:00] feeling crap. And your life could be feeling amazing, but one of the parrots that are, is feeling crap.
[01:00:06] And if you can accept and embrace that you're flying and it's, you know, it's not just accepting who you are. but it's accepting who you are now. And, um, that's, it's hard to get there. That's what, again, I always aim for that. You never maybe get it fully, but, uh, yeah. And that, again, that's, that's what I kind of try to keep doing.
[01:00:28] I talk about it enough with people, but definitely have to talk a little bit myself as well. Cause that imposter syndrome that, Oh, you're not good enough and different kinds of things that definitely come in of course, to do. Why did they come in now? Because I'm human, like the rest of us. So they come in and the rest of us think in of all of us, you're just going to go, there you go.
[01:00:47] Just keep chipping away. Give it a go. Of course.
[01:00:51] Chris: [01:00:51] And I want to go back to no Sweeney as a legal clerk. Okay, you did this for nine years. I didn't know [01:01:00] this until your LinkedIn. You're a legal clerk. Okay. You experienced some issues, um, with, uh, your mental health, then you seek therapy and it obviously has a profound effect on, you know, you stare into the abyss and you manage the rest of your way out of it.
[01:01:21] Wrestling might be the wrong word. It's maybe too aggressive. But someone manages to get you out of that and yeah, you then decide to change your career. You decide that this is, has such a profound impact on you that you want to dedicate your entire life. Now I can't project into the future. When I assume you're going to do this for the rest of your life, you want to dedicate your entire life to replicating that process, that positive process that you had for other people.
[01:01:52] Now, can you describe. The conversation that you had are, are, are telling me the story of that time. When you decided I'm going [01:02:00] to leave the job and I'm going to go study and I'm going to start a new career and his career is all about servitude and helping others. One of the type of conversations you've had with your peers and your loved ones,
[01:02:12] Noel: [01:02:12] I don't think there was one really there.
[01:02:14] Wasn't that kind of, this is what I'm going to do. Kicked down the door and walked out of the house. Um, uh, yeah, it could kind that I wish it was sort of in a movie. I made a musical band, an answer, um, Yeah, the, the, the, the legal kind of the legal Narcan law search, and it was just, it was a job I came upon and enjoyed.
[01:02:39] It was actually, it was just I'm to be talking to people, um, reading the 300 year old books and stuff like that. And, um, again that the people that I was looking in that regard were the people that I was working for that kind of definitely helped me out. And, um, Before and after like that different kind of stress and anxiety [01:03:00] and depression and stuff came up, like that came up.
[01:03:03] Um, and then when I was kind of just certain things out and trying to get myself as I got myself back, that was another thing that, you know, boss came back and said, look, we'll. If you, if you need some help, that's that that's there as an option as well to come back with us, which was great. Cause he shot a belief in me and also we're kind of, but we know, you know, mind yourself as well, which is great.
[01:03:24] Um, and then back at the time it would have been seeing a therapist, Marina, just, she, she, she was absolutely amazed and made a, like a massive difference in my life personally and professionally. And that, um, maybe it's just a terribly grateful to her and her family to her family for. For giving her as with most our clients.
[01:03:45] I'm sure it's because, you know, she was working with us when she wasn't at a family and stuff like that. Um, because her family would have supported her to be able to do her job in that way as well. Um, so it was just kind of through talking with [01:04:00] her and it was always something that I was, I was, uh, I would like to help people cause they're quite empathic and you know, I would have like, I've always liked to help people, but I just didn't have the awareness.
[01:04:11] Didn't have the maturity in the knowledge and then went through a lot of stuff and then cut a lot of knowledge. Very quickly, but a lot of knife experience. Um, and it was something that I was kind of thinking I was trying to figure out, what do I want to do? It was kind of like in your kind of mid to late, mid to late twenties, you, you want to get into, uh, into what am I going to do with the rest of my, not the rest of my life, but the kind of the next while anyway.
[01:04:35] And it just kind of seemed to just come up naturally with the personal, the personality of me. To want to help, to like, to help each other, to, to, to like, to help people. And then you have to put, you have to hire an, a start into it. Like not over help people professionally help people. Um, mixed in with my personal experiences.
[01:04:56] As I often say to people like you went through all different stuff that she went, she was [01:05:00] like, yeah, well, the way, the way I look at it now, it was like, it was a real, it was the best work experience I could have ever had. Um, cause I lived a lot of that stuff. And I know you talked with her previously in different than previous episode, Chris of, you know, the worst stuff.
[01:05:13] Maybe I'd say that was definitely an overstatement, but I, you know, I'd, you know, like anyone, I I've, most often people have their stuff going on. Um, Yeah. And then just discussions with Marina, with therapist at the time. And, um, and then it just kind of evolved into that and did a, a foundation course and then carried on from there.
[01:05:32] And then, um, had just really, really loved it. It's it's hard. It's hard to do the course and, um, that's yeah, it's hard to do the course and, um, put, enjoyed it and enjoyed working with people. And just here I am a few years later loving it. I
[01:05:49] Chris: [01:05:49] have this image in my mind of. Um, I think it was like a really nice narrative.
[01:05:55] Noel: [01:05:55] You go on,
[01:05:57] Chris: [01:05:57] you start off and you're sitting on [01:06:00] one chair in the room and you're the client, and you're speaking to Marina and you know, you're going through all of your issues and you're doing our inner work and you're putting it into practice. And then it slips forward a couple of years and you're in the other chair.
[01:06:17] Do you remember? And could you tell me the story of the first time you did a session with someone? Did you feel that sense of profundity? Did you feel, you know, empowered by that process, that you had turned your pain and suffering? I don't want to over-emphasize those words are strong words, but yeah, if you've never experienced what depression, our anxiety is like, um, it can only be described as suffering.
[01:06:42] You know, it's a dreadful prison to, to view the world from. And NOLA managed to take something that was, you know, imperceptible to others, but you know, very much, uh, a visceral feeling to him and use it to empower him then [01:07:00] to go and serve his community and, you know, uh, to help others. Can you tell me the story of the first time you, you did a session?
[01:07:07] Did you feel anything?
[01:07:09] Noel: [01:07:09] Um, Oh, I'm trying to think. Maybe we won't go into the exact thing and the divorce has just to be fairness to that. To whoever that person was, not that they know or they don't know, but, um, you'd be nervous going. You're nervous going into every session. Um, narratives for me in that way are different though.
[01:07:35] No, no, not narrows. It's. Is it narrows? It's like nerves. There's an excitement. There's a, okay. What are we going to be working with today? What's going to come up. Um, it just felt right. To be honest with you. Uh, as much as you're starting out, like, I'd be nervous if you're starting anything. And that's just, just so people know that's a normal bodily response and it's really [01:08:00] good.
[01:08:00] Nerves are good. We do need them again. We'll go into this in a later day to kind of help people understand that, um, it's just a natural bodily biological response. Um, and I was, I was always taught by a really important person. Uh, one of my old, my holding culture. He, he taught us very early doors. Um, we played like school finals in Crow park.
[01:08:22] Um, that's like the, the, the main, the biggest stadium in Ireland, massive stadium in Ireland, like 10, 11 year old, 80,000 seizures stadium playing this. And you're trying to be, I'm not nervous or you're look you're 11 or 12 trying to be the BU's knees and all this. I think it was like, are you nervous? Not nerves are good.
[01:08:37] So we were taught as the team really, really early, early days, not near as accord. It means something to you. So thankfully, I was able to have that in my mind, growing up, um, That I'll never go to, it was just a natural kind of thing. So yeah, of course, like I'd have nerves there, starting this at hub nerve, starting any job, I'd have nerves moving to Australia, I'd have nerves, [01:09:00] you know, different kinds of things like that.
[01:09:01] So, but there was a natural kind of progression there, but just because you know, you do the train and you do lots of stuff in the course and it's yeah. It's just that there was a natural progression there really? Um, I think because you're making that like. Before you even get to a client, you've made the decision and there's enough opportunities for you to kind of go, Oh, geez, this is too much for me.
[01:09:24] Like in first year, in second year, in third year, all the assignments in forests year, you know, and lots of things like that. So it's even it's way. It starts way before the forest actual session. Um, About Marina.
[01:09:37] Chris: [01:09:37] Okay. And you spoke about how our pillars and her foundation, where her family around her, they gave her, um, you know, the emotional resilience, I'd say to be able to do what you do, which I always think that, um, I couldn't do what you do because I sometimes wear other people's emotions very [01:10:00] heavily.
[01:10:00] Uh, you know, if someone is, um, Sad or anxious or whatever I can't have, but I just want to, uh, have them and talk to them. And, uh, I, I feel it very, very viscerally. Is there a situation or are you, have you ever felt that, uh, you know, by osmosis or our whatever mechanism, people's emotions sometimes overwhelm you and you, what do you do when you feel overwhelmed?
[01:10:28] You know, you're the professional. You know, do you have some sort of toolkit, like a bag you walk around when and go, like, it's just my emotional first aid kit. Um, what do you do? And does it affect you?
[01:10:42] Noel: [01:10:42] It doesn't affect me in it. If it affects me in the right way, as in, it's kind of, um, not in the right way. If I feel it affects me in, in a healthy way, in a good way. As in it gets you thinking, it gets you understanding people more and more. That's the. [01:11:00] Okay. I was going to say, that's the biggest thing.
[01:11:02] That's one of the biggest things is that it just, it, it breaks your judgments, your barriers down more and more and more because you just understand more and more people and more and more of people on the boat, people. Um, Just, I do the same thing as I talk to clients about as in him for a walk, go for a swim, go for a hike, listen to a podcast, listen to some music, listen to, you know, uh, an audio book, watch some crap videos on, on Tinder or web.
[01:11:35] Watch something on Netflix. Sit. I like to sit. The power of a good set is, is massively underrated. One of my, one of my friends that I studied with, like you said, so, Oh yeah. Do you want to see w w and then people say, Oh, what do you do? See it, just sit down. Like, that's it, um, different stuff like that does art.
[01:11:57] So that's what it's trying to [01:12:00] not get to a place where it's in response to something. And that's something that I really pointed out to people is that yes, you can live your life a certain way and do little bits and pieces here and there just to keep going in and response kind of way. But the best way to do it is live your life a particular way.
[01:12:18] And I don't mean like join, you're joining a cold by your body tip I do on this. I mean, like you live your life that way. That's just the way you live your life as opposed to live in your life. In, in, in one round and then your duties, tips, and tricks. It's like, they're not tips and tricks. They're just things that I do just naturally.
[01:12:37] That's just part of my day, um, you know, the forest rule of firefight and crisis management is to avoid the fire and the, and or the crisis in the first place. So you have all your stuff there, like yes, you could. Do, you know what we have on Australia? Like, absolutely. They've great. Fire response units and they have great knowledge dealing with Bush fires in particular and things like that.
[01:12:58] But the best way to, to kind [01:13:00] of, to be able to deal with those things happening is to, is to not have them happen in the first place, or if they do have them happen, they happen in a minor way. So you're staying on top of them and you're doing this. It just becomes a way of life. Um, that's which is that you really see that here, these things are for fires, cetera, the way of life.
[01:13:16] And that's what I'd say to people as well as upstate say to people, but that's for me personally, It's living your life that way. Um, but if it does get overwhelmed and yet it's just like that, you just keep going through the same things. Um,
[01:13:32] Chris: [01:13:32] yeah. Social important point. You know, I really want to get the point across that, you know, we have this prescriptive title in, in mental health and it seems that people are allowed to talk about it when.
[01:13:49] They have hit the metaphorical brick wall. And when they have been clinically diagnosed and mental health is almost been pathologized to the point that you have to be quote [01:14:00] unquote sick, um, to reference your mental health. We don't reference our health all the time. When we go to the gym, we seem to think that.
[01:14:11] Have is one thing and mental health is another thing. That's why I think the words mental health or the word are they determined that there's a misnomer. Maybe it is just health or wellness,
[01:14:22] Noel: [01:14:22] but I put it like this, sorry, Chris, put, just put it like this. Right? What creates your thoughts? You're on there for an kind of con which will then therefore create and contribute to your feelings and your emotions.
[01:14:34] Oh, is it like, think of your body? And your brain. So your body is in the muscles, the legs, the arms, the back, and all the rest of it. And then your brain, right, is to say, just break it into two parts, the head and below the head from below the shoulders down. Um, it think of that as a mechanical working thing.
[01:14:55] So if you get that on the right and a good place, where then what does that create? That creates our [01:15:00] actions, our emotions, our moods, or feelings. And then they put the thoughts the way we think. So if you get that in a good place, if you look after the carrier, then the Cara look after you. Um, so it is, it's absolutely worn in the same.
[01:15:12] And, and that's why I think you're absolutely gonna hear from us when we talk. And yet look, we do absolutely talk about, say distinguished, say mental health, but overall it's just health, you know? Yep. Ready? And the
[01:15:25] Chris: [01:15:25] God comes into that. You know, I read recently that there are more microbiome in the gut than there are neurons in the brain.
[01:15:31] So are we, you know, there's a kind of a philosophical question here. Um, are we microbiome, you know, are we bacteria or are we, um, says, uh, so you know, that is a serious tangent that I don't want to go out and go
[01:15:46] Noel: [01:15:46] for that conversation. We
[01:15:48] Chris: [01:15:48] do a podcast series. Yeah, I, I, I do think those points are incredibly important and it's like, people need to speak about meant that has [01:16:00] like a preventative measure are the, the preventative measures for their mental health in the same way that we speak about no, thankfully preventative measures for our health, you know, um, I spoke.
[01:16:12] Briefly about microbiome and gut health. People are getting really, really interested in that now. And thankfully, um, people speak about, uh, you know, exercise regimes and, um, you know, they speak about, um, wellness and self care meant that has to be put in that same bracket. We need to be, um, changing our lifestyles and, uh, you know, Increasing our emotional intelligence, you know, we're all obsessed with our IQ and, you know, the titles we get and all of life's participation trophies, you know, um, it's all peacocking, but our emotional quotient or EEQ is I believe more important than our IQ, you know, much of what we do and what we say and [01:17:00] the results we get in exams, et cetera.
[01:17:01] It's just trickery of the mind. But IQ
[01:17:03] Noel: [01:17:03] is not at the time. If you can't use it, it very quickly.
[01:17:08] Chris: [01:17:08] Exactly. And I, I keep referring to, uh, this kind of mental health toolkit or an emotional toolkit that I've built up over the years. And all that means is I have, you know, perhaps a dozen or so things that I do daily almost, and if not daily, weekly or monthly, that helped me to, um, find some state of equilibrium with my, you know, sense of wellness and sense of health.
[01:17:33] And that doesn't mean that I'm never going to be. Um, depressed again, you know, I'm in an, a, quite a good place at the moment. No one asked me that I need a session this week. And I said, I, to be honest, I don't really feel like I need it. But I also know, you know, what came up this morning? My meditation was that I do feel this sense of, um, distraction.
[01:17:53] And I feel like I'm tired, but I have loads of energy. And I know when, when that's happening, it's because. [01:18:00] I am, uh, you know, thrilled by something or I'm invigorated. And I'm clearly invigorated by the fact that we're about to launch a podcast and, you know, it's, it's a really exciting time, but I still have to make sure that all of these things on my checklist are done.
[01:18:14] I have to make sure that I'm journaling and these are just my own personal, um, favorites, but everyone can have their own, you know, Noah talks about sitting and he keeps recommending, I go sit on this particular bench and where I live and I do it sometimes, but sometimes I don't bother because I have my own stuff.
[01:18:29] Yeah. And that's how I talk about mental health. I don't have to talk about it. Like I am only when I'm feeling like really ill. Um, and you know, there are times where I, I, I get to the point where I do have to take a number of days to my South and I need personally, I need solitude. I need to kind of get through it.
[01:18:48] Um, for a couple of days while it's very acute and then around that I've learned to speak to others and I've learned that I need community and I need that sense of synchrony with other people that I need to talk about it, even though it feels [01:19:00] super uncomfortable, you know, journaling, meditation, exercise, diet, you know, I've spent the last six months really, really going deep into the gut microbiome and how that affects mental health.
[01:19:12] And if you've never, um, you know, come across the body of literature around that, it's fascinating. What the car can do and, you know, the gut brain axis, um, and it, our vagus nerve and all of these things, Vago, toning, and then what cold war therapy can do for you, et cetera. But these are just things that people can put into their repertoire, into their toolkit to do it daily, to build a lifestyle, and they can speak about my, that have openly like that.
[01:19:37] Just like we speak about our fitness. This is like our mental fitness.
[01:19:42] Noel: [01:19:42] Highly, just get interested in it. Just start reading the stuff. That's just that like that mighty.com does loads of different stuff out there. Just start reading about it and have an interest. Just tap five, 10 minutes. If you're going to flick down through your phone, you know, for Facebook or Instagram or Twitter, whatever data you say, Genoa fact that I'm going to try and do it every day [01:20:00] or most days as many days as I can this week.
[01:20:02] 10 minutes and just flick through from mental health, different kind of stuff. And that's even that, like I say to people now just for, for the remainder of the week, whatever week you're listening to this. And whenever you listen to it, even for the remainder of the day, have it in your mind to say, right.
[01:20:15] Okay. What kind of stuff could I do for the rest of this, for the next kind of couple of days so that when my head hits the pillow tonight, when I'm going to bed, it's feeling a little bit lighter or at least it's not feeling as shit. And it's just make one or two little things that you can and just try to involve them.
[01:20:32] But they're realistic and consistence is that there's no point to saying, yeah, I'm going to do this amazing thing. It's like, yeah. Yeah. You're going to really be able to consistently do that to some, to kind of a little bit of homework for everyone,
[01:20:44] Chris: [01:20:44] even if you feel well. That's the
[01:20:45] Noel: [01:20:45] important point. Yeah.
[01:20:46] That's
[01:20:46] Chris: [01:20:46] exactly what I am every day. I made sure that I have to do certain things. Not too many things. Don't overwhelm me. Yeah, no, we're to call it a group do and everywhere you go, yeah. Do this. And here's a checklist and [01:21:00] do fucking 10 things, 10 things you can do for this. It doesn't have 15 things, even if it's one thing, even if it's, you know, I like to run a bath and put on some candles, do that.
[01:21:09] Yeah. If that makes you happy, if that makes you feel a little bit better. Then do that consistently. You know, if you're an introvert and you need to be own explain to your partner or your friends, I just need to be alone. On a Friday night, I'd have to get a takeaway and watch a shit film on Netflix. You know, everyone has to build their own repertoire.
[01:21:26] Now we're going to close this off and we'll see you in episode three, but Nolan, before we close it off. Yes. You know, shameless plug please. Where can people find you?
[01:21:36] Noel: [01:21:36] Uh, my website is www dot Mooloolaba, C and p.com.edu. We'll put it in, we'll put a link somewhere. Um, and Instagram and Facebook. Um, Maloolooba counseling and performance is the name of my practice.
[01:21:53] Um, brilliant. And we'll show notes. Yeah. Go find someone that you [01:22:00] think suits you. It's not whether if, if you think Joe, actually, he might suit me as a therapist. Don't think that as no, that therapist might suit me. Great. If that is me great. If it's not go to find someone that you feel will help you, that is absolutely the main thing.
[01:22:13] That's there, to be honest with you. Um, just so people understand,
[01:22:17] Chris: [01:22:17] if you haven't picked it up already, Nola's on the other side of the world. Okay. Yeah. Uh, it's telemedicine is a big thing. Now you can do a therapy session over zoom. Uh, it, it, our zoom or other, um, uh, providers. Okay. It can be done. Is it better in person?
[01:22:35] I don't know. I personally prefer doing it over zoom because both known and I take notes at the same time. Whereas I remember being in sessions and I wasn't taking notes, so I just want to round it off there. Thank you very much for listening. If you've listened all the way through, you're an absolute trooper.
[01:22:50] I hope that, um, you know, the first section give you a sense of, uh, what therapy is and. You know, perhaps, uh, why, um, [01:23:00] it, uh, has merit for almost all of us, especially if you're in a position where you're feeling disenfranchised, you're feeling low. You're feeling that that loss for life has left. You, you know, you're having sleeping difficulties, et cetera.
[01:23:12] This has been episode two. This is the one DMC podcast. Thank you very much.
[01:23:18] Noel: [01:23:18] Jump out the bed. I got
[01:23:24] a morning cup of butter. So be the most. If you've got a problem or a squabbling or an issue, you can talk it out and stretch your legs about effects. We can walk it out cold, cold days, no. Raise what you talk about. USB looking both ways with all the parts about, Oh, often pray for your peace of mind, a VCRs and a peace of mind.
[01:23:41] That was.
