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Transcripts may (read: definitely will) contain typos. We use software to transcribe the show and American artificial intelligence is apparently not intelligent enough to understand the Irish accent; go figure!
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[00:00:00] [00:00:00] Chris: [00:00:00] Sheridan, welcome to the show. Thanks very much for giving us your time. Listen, I am a white belt when it comes to interviewing here and you were at the blackbirds, so please take it easy on it. Okay.
[00:00:11] Mike: [00:00:11] I don't, I don't know about that. You, you think that, and, uh, when I'm interviewing people who interview people for a living, I'm like, So, uh, I got us, I got us.
[00:00:20] Trust me. Well,
[00:00:21] Chris: [00:00:21] this time you're on the other side of the table, you're getting interviewed. So I'm interested to see how this goes for you and for me. So we're going to start off way back when, okay. Okay. And we want to get a little bit of a character development in here, et cetera, because there seems to be a lot in your life that you have done to build your character, but I'd like to go kind of way back because in our research there wasn't much about.
[00:00:44] Um, growing up, et cetera. And I'd like to maybe delve into that a little bit, excuse the point. So can you pick a moment, uh, that best describes your childhood? Or do you want to go back to a specific point in time and maybe, uh, give me a little bit of insight into [00:01:00] growing up in Kulak, which is where I believe you, you grew up.
[00:01:04] Mike: [00:01:04] Um, I dunno if there's this specific moments on the youngest of four. And the closest to me is my sister and she's seven years older than me. And then I have two older brothers and they're nine and 10 years older than me. So, uh, it was almost, it was a little bit like been an only child. Um, but uh, also having, you know, voters who were bigger and older and growing up in Kulak is helpful as well.
[00:01:29] For obvious reasons. I grew up in a part of hula called and, uh, it's it's. Fairly rough particula. Like there's some noise, parts of everywhere and there's some and not so noise, parts of everywhere. I still have a lot of friends. I grew up with around there. I'm still in torturous. Uh, one of my best friends actually grew up right behind me.
[00:01:51] Like his backyard was just the motorbike garden and he lives in the UK now. And like, he's getting married. When are you supposed to get married last year? And it be as bad as mine. So I still [00:02:00] have a lot of old friends from around their Bush. Yeah. It was a funny, old place to grow. I remember. Uh, wearing a baseball cop, walking around the corner one day, and then somebody calling me a homosexual slower for, in a baseball, you know, it's that kind of like a different place?
[00:02:18] Yeah. It's just a complete, this is like, I suppose, probably late eighties and 38 now. And, uh, it's just, uh, I mean, in saying that like, you know, there was a lot of like really just awesome people that were all queer. So my next door neighbor. Uh, we were really close friends growing up. Um, and it was a lot of like athletes.
[00:02:39] I grew up around there for some reason as well. We would just go out and play football. It's like back in my day, we played football on the field across the road, but Kenny Cunningham, who was the Ireland captain for awhile, grew up a few doors up. He's a bit older runners, my best mates, a guy called Thomas Butler who played for Ireland, played for Sunderland.
[00:02:55] Uh, and we would all just go out and contemplate football. And, [00:03:00] uh, we supply a game called five on the passions. So you have to play between two, um, two trees on the road and a cul-de-sac and, uh, you have to score on the volume basically. And if you didn't or if it went wide or a goalkeeper cottage, Uh, you got to dig into the arm
[00:03:19] Chris: [00:03:19] Balis.
[00:03:19] Yeah. You have to go into the goal and everyone got to kick the ball at you and you, you couldn't move. So we almost the exact same thing, you know? Yeah.
[00:03:29] Mike: [00:03:29] It's funny though. I'm like, no,
[00:03:32] Chris: [00:03:32] that, that, that I think growing up in, in a situation like that, where, you know, there's perceived perhaps, uh, adversity. It does breed a kind of, uh, uh, uh, a sense in, in a child that, uh, there's a lot of growth from it.
[00:03:47] I think. And I, I, we just talked earlier about an article there that I called David Coleman, a psychologist wrote, and he was talking about how sometimes we, we pander kids and [00:04:00] we essentially allow them to be bullied by telling them not to fight back, you know, use your words or whatever, but. Yeah, I get it.
[00:04:07] I get a sense of your life that like your brother, I believe is a black belt in jujitsu and
[00:04:14] Mike: [00:04:14] he's a black belt of traditional Judith too.
[00:04:15] Chris: [00:04:15] Yeah. Yeah. And I read somewhere that you didn't feel like going into martial arts was necessary because you had your own fights in the backyard, so to speak, um, growing up right from what, from what I can tell from you, like you have a very strong character, you're a very charismatic guy and it's obviously.
[00:04:32] There's a lot of that. Uh, the Providence of that has been from growing up where you grew up and going into what you got into. Um, and I'd like, I'd like to know a little about your relationship with your brother, because that obviously institutes you to get into martial arts in some way, you know, the fact that he's already in traditional jujitsu.
[00:04:50] Mike: [00:04:50] Um, yeah. Well, I mean, I suppose like a lot of kids, uh, around that time, it was, you know, your brothers, the older siblings are a huge influence on your boat. More is where, and in [00:05:00] a lot of ways, in terms of like the. I suppose the movies we would watch, the TV shows we would watch. And they'd introduce me to movies, like, you know, American Ninja, you know, American Kickbox that they were all American slash martial arts, uh, the Jean-Claude van Damme movies, and a lot of that stuff.
[00:05:17] And I was the type of kid who would watch that kind of thing and want to do it. So I'd want to take part in it. So I dunno what I'm gonna put a Robbie was the same. Um, but he really, really got into it and. You know, it was very, he was one of the first people, like he he's a black belt, a traditional digital Japanese jujitsu.
[00:05:35] And then he was like, he was a part of the very, very early crew and, um, an SPG, I think when it was like a general you're here. Yeah, it was the fables about it being like a shed or, you know, a wave wave on. And Robbie was one of those guys who was there kind of on and off do some word he's like really ridiculous cap, aware of shorts that are like basically hot pants, let let's, let's call it.
[00:05:58] And, uh, and then, you know, properly [00:06:00] each other. Um, and like, you know, probably not the crap that we showed her as well, which is what it was like in the early days. So yes, certainly in the, in that respect he was, I mean, it, MMA was something I. Um, and martial arts was just sometime, I always had an interest in BS from watching movies from, you know, consuming any form of popular culture.
[00:06:19] Um, but just, I suppose when I was a teenager, the biggest regret I would have with X was quite, in some ways an athletic kid, I wasn't a very confident kid bros. I was quite athletic. I, I played a GAA, I played football. Um, but you know, one of the biggest regrets I probably have is not gravitating towards martial arts.
[00:06:39] In a more, um, you know, structured way, uh, when I was younger, because just because I've seen the benefits again, me as a, as a, you know, I started when I was like 32 in a property, you know, like eight years ago. So, um, yeah, like Robbie is definitely an influence on that. He was in my corner for the fight.
[00:06:58] Although, um, we're [00:07:00] on Roddy and, uh, one of the other coaches from the gym, but I think that's because Robbie didn't wanna pay 30 euros for a ticket as well. I
[00:07:08] Chris: [00:07:08] think it wasn't culturally cool. When you were growing up to, um, uh, be into martial arts, you know, it was certainly when I grew up in the nineties, so I'm 30 now.
[00:07:16] Um, and I did, uh, karate a quick rowdy because, um, I, I take off my socks and my feet were cold. So I stopped going every sport for very valid
[00:07:25] Noel: [00:07:25] reasons, for various reasons,
[00:07:28] Chris: [00:07:28] uh, martial arts, just, uh, wasn't really cool. When I was growing up. Soccer was cool and GA was cool. Rugby was becoming cool in our circles.
[00:07:37] I think. Um, But do you think that's maybe why you didn't jump into it at an early age? Maybe why you looked at it at 30 again
[00:07:47] Mike: [00:07:47] or just on tinker was as prominent. Uh, Dan, as, I mean, like you said, football and stuff, like we didn't play a huge, a huge amount of rugby on a NQL lot. To be honest, I played a little bit when I went to, I went to a school [00:08:00] called Davidson, our tain and St.
[00:08:01] David's and our team. And there's a little bit of it there, but it was mostly GIA. Um, but I dunno whether I dunno it was because it wasn't cool. It was just like, in my, you know, you come to discover girls in your teen years, that's a big distraction and going out and hanging around with your friends and stuff.
[00:08:17] And then I started kind of endurance sports, like from like all the way from 10 mile runs to ultra-marathons, uh, with like kind of long distance rattling in the middle, in my mid late twenties. And that just kind of escalated and it just kind of rolled on from there and put in the back of my head, I was always a fan of like the UFC and, um, you know, we're kind of watching combat sports and the athletes and want to talk and the dedication that a talk.
[00:08:46] So it was always in the back of my head. I just needed to make a documentary about it, to get me to actually go and do this because it's a joke. It's my version of the couch to 5k, making a documentary where it's like. You have to do this. Now there's a phenom crew following you around, you [00:09:00] know, or you're doing something for charity and people are donating money towards you.
[00:09:03] You kind of have to do it. So, um, yeah, it was, it was, it wasn't that it wasn't cool. It was more dash. Okay. I'm going to, you know, distract myself with something else or I'm gonna try and do another challenge. I'm gonna run across a country or something ridiculous. Like, yeah.
[00:09:20] Chris: [00:09:20] I see you have a lot of these forcing functions in your life where you put yourself in a situation where you.
[00:09:26] Almost half to succeed in some way, you know, or your own version of success. Like, there's a very interesting, uh, anecdote I got from, from research anywhere. I think he did a, um, uh, 70.2 or 70.3 Ironman. And you couldn't swim before you decided to do it. So you learned to swim two months before which I find fascinating, like these forcing functions or things effective that we put in our lives that, um, We back ourselves into a corner and they force us to do something or to enact something or to learn through adversity and like [00:10:00] not being able to swim and signing up for an Ironman is like the definition of, I would say it for you.
[00:10:05] Tell us a little bit about that and they kind of head space you're in making those decisions.
[00:10:10] Mike: [00:10:10] You've really done your research, Sarah Fairplay. Um, yeah, I, I was, you know, that's, that's really a Seuss. That's true. Um, I don't know what it was, but it was a life skill. I felt like I needed to have, um, and like being able to swim and swim and being able to swim strongly for whatever reason just came into my head.
[00:10:28] And then I kind of became a little bit obsessed with it. And at the time I was living in concealing. And, uh, I was working in a place called entertainment that I was a writer and a place called entertainment that I, that was on like grade strand street. And I remember it was door to door. It was 10 miles.
[00:10:45] And I used to hate waiting on the bus and I didn't have a driver's license and I would hate waiting on the bus. So I just started running in and out. And then for whatever reason, I was like, okay, I'm kind of clocking up the miles and stuff like that here. Um, I was killing two birds with one stone in a way.
[00:10:58] So it was kind of the ultimate [00:11:00] pragmatism. He's out of the way. I don't know, boss, you're getting in, in like an hour and 10 minutes or whatever it is. And then I start running to the gym. So I started running to a gym called one escape and Smithfield got a pool and I would, you know, attempt to swim bodily and more just kind of splash around really.
[00:11:15] So, uh, I've somebody recommended a guy called John Doyle who was a swimming coach. And I started doing lessons with him a couple of times a week. And I mean, when I say I was bad, like no coordination, it was a little bit like the MFA where a forest, where all it was just that I just couldn't get it. It just talks like it just, they can flick and I will get very frustrated.
[00:11:35] I'm very impatient. And then one day I remember John saying to me, look, John's a lifeguard. I think in that, in, in Wicklow, I remember John saying to me, you're starting to look like a swimmer, you know, like it was, I think it's for the, for the, for the Armand 70 point tree, I think it's a 1.2 mile swim at the start.
[00:11:52] And it was, uh, it was one of those things, like you said, where I was kind of putting myself in a position where I had to do it. So I signed up for the German in [00:12:00] Germany and visa button in Germany. And it was actually a, it was actually the European championships we're calling it. That's not what I was doing.
[00:12:05] I was just taking part, but they happened to be going on. So it was a whole kind of like festival around it and still from fees, Biden in Germany. And I went over with my brothers and my dad and, uh, it was hilarious cause I got an like going into, I remember going into the water. Um, I did an Olympic arm, an Olympic trotline that few weeks before hand, and I was the first trout line ever did and Wicklow.
[00:12:24] And that was kind of an experience. It was, it was an open water swim. It was in a Lake. So I knew what to expect, but going into the war in Germany. And was it like a reservoir at the start? And, uh, I'll never forget it. It was like different waves. And, you know, Rocky, like a hurricane was blasting over as you going of the water.
[00:12:42] I was like, this is the most German for some reason, but it was, I mean, I remember star, you have to tread water before you, uh, before the race actually started and that's something I hadn't done. Um, and I remember being freaked out and like in and stages and been like, look, and [00:13:00] actually, you know, 10 minutes into the wave and for anybody who hasn't done a trout and I haven't done one since.
[00:13:05] For, for anyone who hasn't done, one, the start of it can be quite aggressive and you can get caught with elbows cause everybody's kind of grappling in the water and to kind of get ahead and you can get kicked in the face and all that stuff. So, um, it was scary. It was certainly scary boss. Look, I've kind of looked at other people doing it and kind of my will look if they can do it, you know?
[00:13:24] And then as soon as I got out of water, I was on the bike, um, uh, and then onto the half marathon. So, um, yeah, it was, it was exactly, that was when we self in a position where I had to do this, where like, look, I kind of have to complete this. And my brothers and my dad were cast. Like, I was like, Running around, you know, with like looking for people to cheer you on like Jeremy kids, like looking for my parents and like that they come back to the hotel to have breakfast.
[00:13:50] I was like, this is the whole reasonable here you are. So Irish men, like, Nope, they're like eggs in the water and seeing how well you see it in six and a [00:14:00] half hours. So yeah, that was it.
[00:14:02] Chris: [00:14:02] You have this growth mindset though? I don't know if you're familiar with there's this body work by a woman called Carol Dweck.
[00:14:07] And she has this book that, um, a lot of people have read that I know it's called mindset and she creates this dichotomy between a fixed mindset and a growth, growth mindset. So you can imagine the analogy of a child, the fixed mindset is, uh, he or she comes home with, uh, their homework and, you know, it's maths, that's a, and R they come home with a test and they get, uh, uh, you know, a 50% on a test or they fail the test.
[00:14:30] The parents go, Oh, you know, your dad is not very good at math. So just focus on your English and you know, you'll be fine. Whereas people with a growth mindset, early developmental stages, their parents will, the exact same child would come home and her parents would go well, let's sit down and work hard on it.
[00:14:44] No, that's apply ourselves. And you certainly, from what I've seen, have this growth mindset like that attitude of, um, Oh, other people can do it so I can do it. Right. Like, it's more impressive to me that you decided I can't swim. So I'm going to [00:15:00] learn to swim and do an iron man to prove it. Then if you had won the iron man, but had known how to swim before that, you know, like, I think it's incredibly impressive.
[00:15:10] Like these forcing functions, I think people can be motivated by them. Um, and seeing examples like that, or dare to kind of examples. I like to see, and I wouldn't show a kid, um, the winner of the iron man. I show them someone like you, who. Couldn't swim before the damn thing I'd said, I'm going to learn to swim and I'm going to do, like, I can't tread water either.
[00:15:27] So I can, I can imagine that feeling of trying to tread water and be like, Oh my God, this is the one thing I forgot to do, but you didn't lose it. You finish the race, you know, you went on and you, you did it. You went on to other things and I would talk about it later, but I can see how you apply that to other things in your life.
[00:15:44] Uh, you know, moving forward. What I want to talk a little bit about call it, cause cause effect relationships. Uh, I'm interested in this kind of like Freudian psychoanalysis piece, where he looks at pieces in your past that lead onto, um, uh, [00:16:00] shaped your character going forward. Um, and if you don't mind, there was this video that you did on LGTV, uh, last year in April.
[00:16:08] Um, and I thought it was really touching. Um, so you, you spoke a little bit about a friend who had passed away in 2003. From CF, I believe I said the fibrosis. I might be wrong, correct me if I'm wrong. Um, do you think that that, that perhaps shaped you in any way that has it affected your, your view or your outlook on life and mortality and things like that?
[00:16:34] Mike: [00:16:34] Absolutely. Like, um, my friend had passed away was Bari has got a called party burn and you grew up around the corner from me in . And it was kind of like the core group of friends that we had. And, you know, as you're kind of barriers, I think he just gone at 21, a few months. He was four days older and he's born on April forest when he died.
[00:16:54] And yeah, like, absolutely it shaped me. I don't know how I couldn't done. I know that the kind of group alouds that [00:17:00] we grew up with are still quite a, you know, not shakable shaken is not the right word, but like, you know, he's just, he's just one of those where he was one of those people. You'd never forget.
[00:17:10] You know, he was, am very dry, very funny. He was a man United fan. So, you know, when he couldn't hold that against them to be fair, like, but, uh, he was obsessed with football and, uh, some of it, some of them were like fondest memories and stuff growing up back garden and. Know, we had this garage next to his house.
[00:17:28] So he had this Lake shed next to his house. And that like, you know, when you're like 12, 13, you've kind of got nowhere to go somewhere to kind of hang out and stuff. But the year he died was there, it was a particularly rough year. And my parents split up that year. I mean, I was like, I wasn't, you know, I wasn't like a child.
[00:17:45] I think I was 20 when they split up. I hadn't gone 21 yet when they split up and we put a Damian, got quite sick. Um, they found a tumor in his stomach. Thank God. He was okay. It was it wasn't cancerous. Um, and then Barry dies that summer as well. [00:18:00] And then there was some water personal stuff and stuff like that around the time as well, boss.
[00:18:04] Yeah, I remember that year in particular, I've been like, Oh God, look, if I can, if I can get through to issue, it was like, if I can get judiciary, I can probably get through anything. But in saying dice. Um, you know, all we have, like, you know, especially me, like, I haven't, it's one of those people that, like, I haven't seen his family in such a long time because I moved away from there.
[00:18:23] I moved away from Kulak and phew, like God, you know, 20 odd years ago, whatever it is. So I don't see them that much. Um, uh, but like I'm friends with them all on social media and like as brothers and, you know, like, Well, I'll reach out every time. It's like, it's Barrett he's come on up on April 4th. Not that's calling the way that the video, because we didn't know a huge amount of , but to be fair, but I kept hearing things about respiratory illnesses and stuff.
[00:18:49] Yeah. And, um, I understood, uh, just from my experience of Barry, the, uh, you know, how vulnerable vulnerable you can be because, you know, in 2002, 2003, [00:19:00] like advances that they've made with cystic fibrosis are like staggering. Now. No, Barry didn't stand a chance. And it was something that my mom and would kind of certainly remind me of when I was a teenager, you know, like, look, you know, no, Barry's probably not gonna live very long.
[00:19:16] You know, shouldn't be as blunt as that, but you were kind of slightly remind me that, like he was sick and, um, You know, just to, just to kind of be aware of it. So it was always like very instinctually protective of Barry. Not that he needed us, you know, although we had a big man, he got himself into trouble, but, um, and he had, he had older brothers and stuff as well, but, uh, yeah, I mean, it's, it's difficult to not have something like that, JP, you know, um, and bought at the store same time now I'm old enough now and enough time has passed now, you know?
[00:19:45] Uh, look, I only look back with fondness. Um, and, and look back what, like the kind of laughs and stuff. We have, the one thing that we don't have as many, I think back then camera phones are really, really new thing. Barry had like the direct David back of [00:20:00] mine where you had the Vodafone yeah, the phone. Yeah.
[00:20:03] I didn't have that phone. I was poor, but I already had that phone booth. We didn't have any, I don't have any pictures of it, which is frustrating, but like, I suppose at the same time, like, you know, you don't, you don't necessarily need those memories.
[00:20:15] Chris: [00:20:15] Absolutely not. And, you know, I think the reason I brought it up is because I thought it was poignant.
[00:20:21] Um, you know, I had an aunt who, um, sadly died from cancer when I was 15 and she lived with us for her last few years of her life. And I think that, um, I have a connection with, um, mortality now that I wouldn't have had, if I didn't connect with it at that early age, I did affect me. Uh, you know, the basis of this just is, and the foundation of the show is the fact that no is my actual therapist.
[00:20:45] So I've, I've gone through cycles of depression since I was a young guy, even before that, throughout 12 or 13. Um, but like I have a, kind of a healthy relationship with mortality now in that I like to keep these like momentum mores around. I have like scholars and [00:21:00] stuff in my office. It's a little bit weird if you don't know about it, it just reminds me that life is short.
[00:21:06] And I think that moments like this in our lives can tell us that look, life is short and you should try and make the most of it. I know that's cliche and a bit woo, but it's, it's damn true. You know, it really is really, really, really true. So first of all, I'd like to say thank you for doing it was a powerful, powerful piece.
[00:21:24] Um, I'd like to ask about journalism and you got into journalism. I want to know why you got into journalism and why did you choose it as a career path? Um, cause it's a very interesting career product, I think.
[00:21:40] Mike: [00:21:40] Um, good question. I suppose I went to film school. I dropped out twice and actually one of my tutors was a guy called Frank Berry who was never like a really renowned director.
[00:21:54] Did Michael inside. The polyman lullaby, brilliant director, brilliant teacher, and like such a talented, [00:22:00] lovely guy. And I've had like, I've kind of reconnected with him in the past few years, but I wanted to be a director. Um, I wanted to make movies. He wants to do documentaries and movies wanted to produce things.
[00:22:10] So I went to film school initially. Um, and. You know, like I'm a pragmatist at heart. I think, I think, just look, this is, you know, how long is it? Actually, I did, sorry. I progressed too much. I did, uh, a couple of days at a friend of mine who I went to college with a guy called Amy Cleary and he just produced them the movie with Josh Hart.
[00:22:30] And so he's kind of, he's kind of kicked on a little bit. Um, and amen. Uh, amen got me a day's work or a couple of days work. He was in locations on film shoots the movie King art or shot in Ireland. Along on people for people completely forgot that that movie existed. It was a Jerry Bruckheimer produced movie with Loyola and Keira Knightley on Ayman got work on dash and then Bitcoin kind of became entertainment that circle of.
[00:22:55] Uh, you know, crews, film, crews, and stuff in Ireland, I managed to get me a couple of days, work [00:23:00] on a show called Murphy's law as a trainee director. And that was shooting up in Fatima mansions, uh, which was doubling as Leicester, which is strange. Anyway, I'm sure there was a reason for us. So did a couple of days working as a trainee ID.
[00:23:12] And I was like, this is too much like hard work. I don't find this at all. Uh, Southern around in the cold for 48 hours. Well, the kids scream at jet ruin into the shot and then the. As first assistant director shout. When I tried every, I was like that, I'm not, I'm not doing this. So I was always kind of looking for opportunities just in the media space, more so than anything else.
[00:23:31] Um, like that was kind of some wash in my wheel house or some wash. Like something that I wanted to do. So I saw, I was just kind of looking around for, for, for jobs. I was working part-time I think it was in, I was in Shu at the time, uh, which is, uh, uh, shoe shopping in Dublin, which, uh, where I met a bunch of my friends, I'm friends with now, and I've came across a job in entertainment dot E for S for a cinema listings at hitter.
[00:23:59] I think that's [00:24:00] what they called us. But, uh, this is. Uh, God would have been, I was 24, I think when it's 20, 24, when I started there. So I made it wherever many years. That is a go and entertainment that a basically provided the cinema listings for every single movie and every single cinema I every single time in Ireland.
[00:24:18] So you literally had to manually. Impulse there's times. And so word, like thinking back now, it's, it's, it's a little bit insane. So you literally have to get every single tenant battalion in Ireland into the system and you would, and that wasn't the worst part of it was like, you know, you have to chase the cinemas to send you to times, or some of them would, would, would fax them in some of them would email, domain you'd end up chasing these small cinemas in like Bundoran.
[00:24:49] Just as an example, nobody specific, uh, to send them their cinema times, then they will change the cinema times because of a movies and selling out or wherever. And then we would get people complaining. And, uh, it was quite [00:25:00] an intense data entry experience for about a year and a half. And I did that for, and while I was doing that, I was writing, um, I was very, I was very raw.
[00:25:10] Um, a guy called Julian Douglas was the MD of entertainment, EY, and. Um, one of the co-founders of entertainment that Ian really took a chance on me, even starting at a level like dash, this kind of saw something in me and saw something in my writing. And, uh, while I was doing the kind of blood, you know, the life blood of entertainment that I think is what he called it at the time.
[00:25:32] Um, I was reviewing DVDs. I was just kind of finding a voice I suppose, and trying to shape a writing style where don't even realize it. And after a year and a half, I kind of got promoted ANOVAs. Uh, allowed Roy full-time and, um, was a film critic for, I got a bit too, but two years, but two years, three years on and off.
[00:25:54] And, uh, like even, even kind of looking back now, um, I [00:26:00] cringe at the, at the film critic at the film critic stuff. Um, I don't, I've gotten a lot from us, like really taught me how to write, um, boss that said. It never, it never quite sat right with me if I'm being honest, because, and look, I've, you know, I've hired people to be film critics as, as the editor of entertainment that a year later down the line and Angelina you down the line.
[00:26:22] But there was just something about it when me personally, where I just didn't like critique and people's work. And I had a conversation where, um, and Macquarie one actually a couple of years ago, but a year and a half ago where I was, he was like, I was just kind of telling them about. Um, we're just chatting away or wherever we were having a drink and chatting away.
[00:26:39] And I was saying to him because Dublin old school will come out and I love this. And it was, I think it was the last, yeah, the last movie that I reviewed and we were having a chat about it. And he was like, you don't, he was Spacey saying, look, you don't review stuff anymore. Right. And I was like, I just.
[00:26:53] It's just something that didn't sit right with me. I wanted to kind of deal. Ultimately, at least when I was younger, I wanted to do what AMA was [00:27:00] doing, you know, and critique. And even though I loved that movie and petite particular critique and people's work, you know what I mean? Don't get me wrong. It's art and you're putting it out there to be consumed to some degree.
[00:27:10] It just didn't sit right with me. And I did it for long enough and there's also an element of, and it's something that I said to ambivalence as, especially with young critics as starting out at least, you know, in my day, Um, you, you stand out a bit more, if you're meaner and you stand out, if you know, you're able to string together, insults are able to string together.
[00:27:31] This how bad this film is, this isn't so bad. And I get that. I certainly did that. And I cringe like thinking back that I did it because it's, it's an immaturity really more than anything else. And, you know, I'm sure directors and actors and stuff read. You know, me and her movie ended. I don't like that.
[00:27:51] You know, it's just, just, it's just not something I'm proud of. You know, I'm, I've worked hard to get to a certain point and you know, if you want to call it [00:28:00] journalism, I suppose, as popular culture journalism. And, but it's not somewhere I want it to be. And look at, got me on TV. It got me on at young people's television authority and on RC two and two, two for a couple of years, you know, sent me all over the world.
[00:28:16] Send me to Brazil to interview people and stuff and tend to, to fast and furious casts or wherever it was, boss. It just, it just didn't sit right with me. And, uh, it's just, it's just, I mean, it's not something that I go back. I don't really read reviews anymore. It's an older suspect to the film critics. Um, like I said, I did it, I did it for a long time.
[00:28:35] Um, but it's just, yeah, it just didn't sit right with me.
[00:28:42] Chris: [00:28:42] I think, no one's going
[00:28:43] Noel: [00:28:43] to, you're going to ask something. No, no, sorry. No, I was just wondering that kind of time. Um, like finishing secondary school, high school, secondary school and into college. And what's what's going on for you there? How, how comfortable or uncomfortable are you kind of, Oh, [00:29:00] I tried this and I'll try it again with it, with it, with the.
[00:29:02] You know, with, with college and then not now I got to show you, I got to enter what's going on for you there, with that way of feeling pressure to be something, or what was that like for you?
[00:29:13] Mike: [00:29:13] Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I D I don't think I was particularly confident or anything like that. Um, uh, probably probably a lot more insecure than anything else, especially at that age.
[00:29:21] And, uh, certainly very, very immature. I think I was. I mean, I'd had my, like, you'd probably call her first real girlfriend when I was in college. And then I've had like four relationships in my life. I'm in a fourth. Well now, like, so, um, uh, like serious relationships in my life. So I was, I was, I, you know, I was in a relationship.
[00:29:40] I was, I was with a girl having left college. Like I had a new girlfriend and stuff having left college. And it's a different part of your life. I suppose. It's a different, it's a different gear. You're kind of in your mid, early mid twenties. Um, A lot of my friends, like we're kind of in the UK and we're like professional athletes in the UK.
[00:29:59] We're like professional [00:30:00] footballers and you know, it wasn't working and then like shoe shops part-time uh, and, uh, so I mean, that was a calling to have a whole other dynamic, like where you'll be on lights out with like, you know, rich professional football, as you recognize from like the TV and from watching matches and stuff.
[00:30:18] And that, I mean, if anything else, I suppose that did. Um, conditioned me a little bit to being around famous people and been around people like recognizing people. And like I was at Loyola Quinn's 35th birthday party. Like, know don't get me wrong. No Quinn. And his wife were looking at me going, who are you?
[00:30:34] That's his claim to fame. Yeah. Right. You just scored, he just beaten Frank Stapleton's record. He's my second cousin. There's some trivia theater, but he'd just be in Frank Stapleton's. Um, Gold is gold record for Ireland. And he was, I think it was his 45th birthday party. I forget his wife looked at me cause I was like, wait, are you here?
[00:30:52] And I was like, Oh, um, but yeah, it did.
[00:30:56] Noel: [00:30:56] Sorry, go on. Now, the reason I asked, I suppose it, [00:31:00] it's saying you like your character as working here and more about your way, you know, where you're coming from, things as sculpted Jay, and obviously seeing where you're at now and the things you've been through, but it's, it's a particularly, just in general, it could be a particularly difficult time for lots of people, especially now.
[00:31:15] Um, with, because there can be lots of soup. A lot of people are quote, unquote successful, whether they are financially successful or whatever way it can come across. Um, a lot younger because of, you know, YouTube or social media work or are, you know, working in it sectors and stuff like that. So that it is something that I would say, you know, I would come across as this feeling a lot of, a lot more pressure to be that successful.
[00:31:39] Like, you know, at 23, 24, 25 and it's like, Oh, I'm miles behind. So I suppose it's just trying to get an idea of you're. You're a great example of that as you were taking your Tonya, but you were trying to finish your work and you're working hard to get it, but it's that you're able to keep chipping away and keep working away.
[00:31:59] Things [00:32:00] were common. Good for you then it was just that ability to be able to sit and kind of block out the noise. Or were you able to block out the noise or how hard was that?
[00:32:08] Mike: [00:32:08] You know, Yeah. I mean back down, I don't it, I mean, I was just, I was just happy to be in media initially and a 24 starting an entertainment II.
[00:32:18] And then I suppose I'm naturally ambitious. So I think I was 27 when I started interviewing people in the sense of like doing movie junkets and interviewing famous people. I've been in a room with a famous person, um, probably a couple of years after that. And then that led to don't let the TV. So I was ambitious on a, kind of happened in stages and a happened in stages for a while.
[00:32:41] Like I have the stages for a long time. So from going from entertainment to progress into writing full-time, which was a big deal, like becoming like a staff writer and a senior writer and a movie editor to go into a show like two, two, which was, you know, it was as a continuity show essentially, but it was watched by a quarter of a million, 200,000 people.
[00:32:59] Um, and it [00:33:00] was live to then hosting it in the final year. Um, which was a big, big deal for me, because up until that point, I was 29 when I hosted up until that point. Um, you're contributor and it's a very different brain and that's something I've learned. That it's, you know, I was a late bloomer in a lot of ways.
[00:33:18] I think I still am, but, um, it's just a different brain. And I used to look at, I'd look across at like Dara Quilty is a friend of mine, still stars, a brilliant, brilliant broadcasts. He's just a naturally good broadcaster or Sinead Kennedy. Who am I I'm still in torch wish. And Sinead is like, just so natural.
[00:33:37] I know he would, they would be a contributor on the show when they were hosting and I'd be like, I kind of want to host. And it's that difference between contributing and facilitating to me. And it's a completely different brains I've learned as, as I've kind of gotten older. So I got the whole set of towards the, like, I think I filled in 15 times or something like that.
[00:33:55] And let it be said, Oh, it was awful. Like I shouldn't, first of all, [00:34:00] you can't be this Harry on host children's television. It's not, it's just, it's weird. And, uh, there was no autocue I remember and I still get like flashbacks, like, like, like Vietnam, like nonstop flashbacks. There was, um, there was no autocue and.
[00:34:16] Um, it's just something you didn't have to worry about when you were a contributor, because the host will do to us to present with DoorDash, but like to have a little monitor and studio white and oversee in the corner that you would watch basically, while people are home, we're watching and then it will come live on you.
[00:34:29] And all, I was like, Oh, was very bad. I was not a good presenter. I'd never presented the camera before in my life. I didn't realize the gear shifts. So then after that, and there were, they were very kind to give me so many opportunities and I think I definitely got better. Um, Paul Walch, um, who's a singer.
[00:34:46] What Roy seven was a presenter that year I would fill in for him. And he was very encouraging as well. And boss, I kind of got obsessed with it. Then afterwards, this is like very early thirties, late twenties, early thirties, and getting good at presenting to camera [00:35:00] and seeing watch presents and the camera's hook.
[00:35:03] And. Looking at people like Sinead and like Paul and like Dara and like people, I was a fan of into DUS or whatever, and going, okay, what do I need to do to get to that point? So I hosted it and movie shelf for entertainment that I am before I went to Jody, you did about 30 or 40 episodes, which was the seven, eight minute show.
[00:35:23] Um, which was, you know, uh, it was a movie show still, but I was hosting. This all felt different and. Or I would have a contributor review movies and we would have competitions and we would have, um, interviews with whoever and whatever movie was out with that week, whatever movie star was in the movie that week.
[00:35:39] So it certainly felt like it was going in stages. Like I felt like, okay, this is happening, you know, I'm starting a data entry. I'm moving up to Ryan. I'm moving up to a more senior role. Excuse me. I'm now on camera. Uh, I'm I'm doing movie junkets. Okay. Who else am I interviewing for movie who haven't I interviewed, yes.
[00:36:00] [00:36:00] Do you want it to you, Ryan Reynolds, you know, Facebook updates is off to London to interview Ryan Reynolds you're
[00:36:05] Noel: [00:36:05] to proactive in it. That's that's like, as you're talking about it, there wasn't necessarily that you were just sitting back and letting it happen. And these things just came to me as well.
[00:36:13] That's a great way to approach something like that. If you feel that pressure as well, what, what pressure are you feeling when I'm feeling pressure to do this so that I want to achieve that and say, well, okay, well, what are you doing to achieve that? You said that that's really interesting. It's a great.
[00:36:26] That's a great attitude to have to kind of take that ownership of, of what you want to do and keep it in, in your control. So to speak.
[00:36:34] Mike: [00:36:34] Yeah. I mean, in saying that there's only a certain amount, a certain amount of control that you have as well, because yeah. Yeah. Cause I mean, you, you, people, you need people to give you the opportunity.
[00:36:41] And I was certainly very lucky, uh, like especially I think early on with, with Julian Douglas, an entertainment so, so much a lot of us do forgive me the opportunity, but yeah, absolutely. And there's a frustration and that as well. I think certainly as, as, as your career kind of progresses and you get a bit older and [00:37:00] where, you know, you want, you, maybe you're not progressing as quickly as you'd like.
[00:37:03] And like, I was kind of sick at a movie self. I was sick of and recognized record, recognized the movie stuff. And, uh, I wanted to kind of move on and that's, that kind of led them to, to run a diary, to video editor agility for it, I think a year and a half, ultimately like, and that was a whole lot of different space.
[00:37:20] I was literally gone from. That Derek called me movie, Mike onto YouTube. Some people still call me that and I'm like, all right, she was 10 years ago, but okay. Um, from that to kind of run an at the time, at least, which was like, you know, the they're kind of primary male lifestyle publication in the country
[00:37:38] Chris: [00:37:38] and the same timeframe you went from movie Mike to a barbaric gentlemen.
[00:37:43] Okay. So you're, you're going through this kind of upper mobility entertainment, daddy to Jody, and it's not satisfying your. Sense of curiosity or perhaps your, you know, like I think every man don't do, um, uh, it's [00:38:00] down to masculinity, we all have this kind of prime urge to, uh, to fight and defend and whatever.
[00:38:04] So you decide to create and star be the protagonist in this documentary, barbaric gentlemen, 2012, you described the thought process behind that and you know, what you were searching for in getting into that.
[00:38:18] Mike: [00:38:18] Before we did when we did, when I actually am in Cleary, who I mentioned earlier on, um, his broker company, techno Wolf, we made a documentary called challenge one to six, and that was an auto merits undocumented student.
[00:38:29] It was me and a good friend of mine, Brian Maher. And he's a DJ. And we ran, we ran from Limerick to Dublin. We raised, I think it's like 50,000 euros or something for special Olympics Ireland. So that was when I was in my ultra marathon phase. And when we did that, um, I was like, okay, well, you know, I don't know what else I can do in this, in this space.
[00:38:48] So to speak like this ultra marathon endurance athletes face, I don't know what I can do. And look, we were looking at the marathon de sobs, which is, you know, a four-day event. I think in North Africa, we were looking at a few different things [00:39:00] and I was like, look, if I'm not going to do MMA, now, we don't know when I'm going to do it.
[00:39:03] Um, and I reached out to on radi, uh, kind of who knew my brother. And it was probably Malema at the time the gym was called. And we, we kind of started to start. I started training and then we started putting the documentary to got to my girlfriend at the time. Um, it's produced a documentary, a girl called Carl Beecher.
[00:39:24] And like, I mean, to this day, like, I mean, it was 8 million years ago. It was 20, 2013, I think. I don't know how she put up with me, you know, manage the director who didn't know a lot about MMA, uh, did a full-time job and produced this documentary. So, um, she was like, you know, instrumental in getting us like Dana white and reaching out to these, you know, Yeah.
[00:39:49] Getting Conor McGregor to be in a very, very early on. I think he just had a second foyer. It was just about to have a second point in UFC against max Holloway. So, um, my mindset was very much like, [00:40:00] okay, let's get through this. Initially when I started this, I think I started training in February on and off on.
[00:40:05] And then ultimately I had to fight in September. Um, but I didn't start properly trained until June, I would say. And I remember Alan saying, look, there's a, there's a card coming up that John cabinet is promoting called Euro point. Nice. Um, Artem global office is actually one of the co commentators on our team is with Bernanke a box in that way think, and was with UFC for awhile.
[00:40:26] And as far as we'll come with mates since then as well. Um, and it was more, less about me in the foil. Ultimately looking back and less about me and personal growth, I think, uh, more about the overall documentary and kind of what we were doing with us. So. I think because I was in jail without a year at the time.
[00:40:44] And, uh, look, it's, it's probably the most in terms of career, at least to me. And in terms of momentum, the most success I had in the short space of time. So I suppose I was trying to capitalize on it a little bit. So in making the documentary and, and make and promote gentlemen, [00:41:00] initially the plan was like, okay, this is going to be like a vehicle for me.
[00:41:03] And I had producer friends who ultimately watched the documentary and be like, this is the vehicle for you at all. You know, it didn't understand. Uh, Y uh, came out of the way it came out. And the reason for that is, is that while we were making the documentary, we'd like, we, it was all, self-funded like, we ultimately sold it to a couple of TV stations.
[00:41:21] We didn't make any money on it. Really. We barely covered costs while making it. We kind of realized like the most interesting thing about this documentary is on rowdy and is. These kinds of peripheral characters in Irish MMA to ultimately ended up being like superstars for a couple of years, you know, not just Conor McGregor, but like Ashlyn Daley, and, um, called pandered, like called to go mate.
[00:41:45] Now, um, these people that were kind of growing in a way at this sports were very, very little and in the way of like media coverage, there were a lot of them were Blake hall was. Talked about it. I think so many times where he was like broke, he was barely able to [00:42:00] pay his rent and then you're going out and doing this, you know, you're going to essentially spar and then, and, you know, pointing people, you know, you know, in a very like, I mean, this is whatever, early 2012, 2013, it, it doesn't seem like that long ago, but in terms of mixed martial arts, it's, it's exploded since then.
[00:42:19] But back then, It was very few people who did it. And it was very few people who did it to that level. So that's what fascinated me about us and what ultimately, at least initially I was like, Oh, this is going to be, this is going to be my, um, this is going to be my like way of sagging into that space and taking into that almost like Louis Theroux style space of speaking to people and interviewing people and have it be authentic.
[00:42:46] And that was always something I came back to and have it be authentic. Does it kind of a conversation around them and me now at the moment about how, you know, MMA journalist, somebody said it, I think that Emma major analysts should have at least three [00:43:00] amateur MMA fights. And that might, that might, that might seem ridiculous to some people.
[00:43:06] And I totally get what your major is and be like, no way are you kidding me? I haven't done it. But in terms of having a certain amount of informed empathy, As somebody who has been in the cage or somebody who am like Robin and black is an MMA analyst who did this book exactly for that reason. And we had a conversation about it, um, that I felt like I couldn't be informed as one informed on mixed martial arts on these guys, uh, on these people without having experienced it.
[00:43:35] So. It's just that, I mean, Dan, it just stuck afterwards and I kind of kept going back and I kind of kept training to the detriment of my nose and ribs as well. But, um, yeah, so Barack Jasmine was more about, I suppose it was an evolving in a way because it, you know, I have to check my ego on multiple levels because you're just, you know, you're getting beaten up, you know, always getting beaten up all the time.
[00:43:59] And I don't mean that in [00:44:00] a sense of like a bar fight or something like that, you were getting beat, you were tapping out, you were. Um, you were losing fights, you were getting humbled, um, and to have to come back then every day to train and twice a day and to come back then and do it again the next day and slowly, slowly get better.
[00:44:15] Like, I was never very technical at mixed martial arts. I never will be. Um, like I'm pretty basic. And, uh, you know, if I've accepted that with 30, I, you start like, you know, this is, this is kind of fish. I had a couple of, uh, we did a tournament a couple of years later. Um, cause I, I always talk to her point and again, I'm fighting in a different way and I was approached to make a sequel gentlemen a while back and it just didn't really appeal to me.
[00:44:39] Um, I didn't know how we would deal with pause after that voice. Um, in 2013, like we were like, you know, a lot of the time in the gym, you might as well be dependent on who you're aspiring. You might as well be in there. You know, at an event in a cage, there's no referee sometimes, you know, when I used to just go up every weekend and try to inspire the best guys, if I couldn't make a [00:45:00] class or something like that.
[00:45:00] So we had a couple of gym fights, like actual tournament's in the gym and when I warned bolded ELLs. So that was maybe looking back that that was kind of enough for me, you know, like where I was like, I haven't been to SPG in a year. I've met SPG Charleston in a year for obvious reasons because of what's going on and stuff.
[00:45:16] Um, but. I do miss that. I really miss the lads like Bush. I don't miss it as much as I told her what I don't miss that kind of, um, I dunno, I dunno, Mister combat elements to it, as much as it's hard or what, I suppose there's a, there's a security. And as a confidence, a known dash, you kind of, you know how to handle yourself.
[00:45:34] And, um, this kind of notion of alphas and people kind of showed up word around and I always think it's ridiculous because. You know, like the, the lads like trained where some like UFC caliber, lots and lots that are in the UFC, or were in the UFC at the sweetest guys in the world. Like they're almost married.
[00:45:50] He, a lot of these lads, like, and it's not this like sticker chest out some. Yeah, no, no, it's definitely not. It's it's a great, it's actually the complete opposite, you know, you would see [00:46:00] those lads come and go into jail. They would last generally about a week and then they're like, get topped up with somebody who's half their waste and it's, you know, it's, it's, it's great for humbling.
[00:46:09] And I think if you come back after been humbled, I think a child's character. So at least in that 10. So we went back a lot afterwards.
[00:46:16] Chris: [00:46:16] I love the oxymoron tightly on that barbaric gentlemen piece. Like, did you ever see the parallels to 'em. What you did. And, uh, the movie fight club when I was watching it, my, my, my, uh, sense when I was watching barbaric gentlemen, is that Owen Roddy is like Tyler Durden.
[00:46:37] And Mike Sheridan do this thing where he's like joining fight club and wait, my favorite line in the movie is he they're like, remember he they're standing in a bus and then the reader goes, they look at like this a sign and it's like a Gucci ad. And there's like this, you know, Herculean, physique. He's like, is that what a man looks like?
[00:46:53] Um, and title responds. Um, I got a butcher. It isn't that way. I think it's, uh, um, chef improvement is [00:47:00] masturbation. South destruction is the answer. And I, I like this idea of like breaking down our personas. I'm doing things that kind of, you know, our ego manifests in all sorts of ways, but it's very difficult to be egotistical or.
[00:47:16] To, uh, retain that sense of self, you know, that protective sense assess when you go and do something like you did where, you know, it's, it's analogous that I've gone to journalism thing with 100 stops and you go, and you, you are the center of, uh, documentary. You, you jump right into the, the arena. You know, you're not that critique anymore.
[00:47:34] You, you can critique because you're doing it, you know, Um, and was there a sense for you that you were kind of like just drawing like a sense of you or you wanted to see, like, if, if, uh, you, you could bring up that part of you that perhaps you were afraid and you wanted to prove to yourself that you weren't afraid
[00:47:54] Mike: [00:47:54] maybe.
[00:47:54] Yeah. Um, first of all, let's say only be the light is being compared to broad pitch. Yeah. [00:48:00] That's a complaint in the movie. Yeah. Um, no, I mean, I mean, absolutely. I mean, I'm sure there was like, I mean, I mean, in fairness as well, like I think for, for like go coaches and I've talked to Tom tumbler about this as well, he's like had some amazing, like make my car T and, and Brendan Rogers and Roberto Martinez over the years and talked about.
[00:48:20] Communicate, um, like being a good manager and being a good coach and what that means and like what own Rodney in particular, who I genuinely maintain as one of the best cultures in the world at any sport it's communication and own is just able to communicate key things in a very, very, in a very, very simple manner, but in a way that you're able to understand that and you're able to digest it.
[00:48:46] And that was like fat. That was so fascinating to me. Early on. And look, I could, I could implement if Alan taught me 12 things, I could probably implement , which is like, I dunno, under hooks or like something like that. I obviously got [00:49:00] better as, as the years went on and bought. I'll never forget walking out, you know, walking up to Johnny Cash.
[00:49:05] Uh, the man comes around and uh, like Alex, the guy a fault was a guy called Alex Swan and that fight and Alex was a unit like Alex was like a personal trainer. He was in phenomenal shape. He was formerly junior national TaeKwonDo champion. Like really, really just well put together guy, lovely guy as well, and just the beast.
[00:49:25] So, um, at T I mean, it does teach us something about yourself. Remember, I won't say, if you look, I need to got knocked out very, very early on, about 20, 30 seconds in, um, it was like kind of surreal, um, to get hit, like that start with like, you know, you can cut it over here to front row in the crowds. Like I think it was about seven, 800 people at us, but on set that to me after and said like, look.
[00:49:46] You've been in deep water before and unknowns had, I think, running the distances that I've ran or done an automatic in the Arctic circle the year before that as well, 100, a hundred kilometer roam with my friend Ash. [00:50:00] Um, he was basically saying you've been to dark places before, and you've been through the deaths before and you're able to grow that out.
[00:50:07] You know, we were able to grow that out. So that's something that's still to me, I think in that fight. And you do, I mean, it is almost cliche, but you do learn something about yourself. You know, like I kind of got back up Dan and John Calvin has said to me after like a year or so your wife, he was like, you are winning that fight then, you know?
[00:50:23] Um, but, uh, uh, like, I mean, in a very sloppy when melanoma hand way, but, um, yeah, like, uh, Looking back. I mean, where I started and kind of where I ended up or where I am now. Like there's absolutely you grow period as well. And like, I've, I've certainly matured a lot since then, too, even at 30, 31, like I've certainly matured and I'm, I'm positive, like owns influence on, on MMA and the kind of discipline and, and humility that comes with it has played a part in that for sure.
[00:50:57] Chris: [00:50:57] Oh, yeah. I'd like to ask you about, um, the [00:51:00] interview careers with, you know, um, I think we spent a bit of time now, obviously on, on, you know, periods of growth, et cetera. You have this like sense of charm when you're conducting an interview that you seem to put these people at ease, you ever feel that like a sense of imposter syndrome.
[00:51:16] Like normally I talk about this all the time. You know, we feel like we have no right to be sitting here interviewing someone like you or the people that hopefully that will be intervened down the line. And you ha you, you do have to kind of get over that, you know, we're, we're effectively a proxy for the guests, you know, the way, like, think of it as I'm not really here and just asking questions that hopefully people would find interesting and, and, and learn from.
[00:51:36] How do you get over that, that imposter syndrome? And how do you like turn on that? Chairman put people at ease when you're, when you're conducting interview.
[00:51:43] Mike: [00:51:43] First of all, I have to say like your boat excellence, like this is, this is really good near polo. You're a lot more measured done on in my head when I'm interviewing anybody even now.
[00:51:52] So trust me. Um, I don't think it's something that you can turn on or you can not turn on. Like, [00:52:00] um, I th I think, I mean, some people have to work a little bit harder or wherever it Bush. Zoom has been funny, like zoom has been obviously our Zoomer or, you know, kind of the system that we're using now to kind of record the interview.
[00:52:12] Basically remote interviews are a kind of funny, one of the forest people I interviewed, um, over zoom was Chris Voss. Um, he was like chief hostage, international hostage negotiation with the FBI and wrote best on the books and stuff. And Chris is awesome. Chris is just a dude, like he's really, really good guy.
[00:52:30] And the first thing I said to him was like, like, what do we do? Like normally I'd shake your hands, you know, and walk it. If you're coming into the studio or wherever I'm going into a room, or you're doing a junket or something like that, um, I'm doing junkets. I'm doing these movies. Don't continually on these interviews that are very, very short.
[00:52:47] I mean, You will get up at four o'clock in the morning, I'm Floyd to London, um, and be in some swanky hotel at Claridges or something like that are so hard or something in London for ultimately, you know, what could amount to be in six minutes when an [00:53:00] actor or six minutes with whatever movie star or director or something like that.
[00:53:03] So you have to learn, um, to be able to move the conversation along. I'd like, I guess I got frustrated with that and I got frustrated with the constraints with movie junkets and it wasn't the actress fault. But wasn't the person that was interviewing was fault. It was the way it's settled is like conveyor belts.
[00:53:21] Like people think it's kind of glamorous. It's not, you know, and then you get there and, um, you're like, you're seeing feet. You're seeing people from like, GMTV on, like, I'll never forget, like myself and Gordon Hayden has a, he was an entertainment journalist or doing the avatar junket years ago. And, uh, I think Gordon co-ordinate James Cameron might sound boarding.
[00:53:43] We were kind of waiting around your phone over today, beforehand and stuff. And you're in this big hotel and, you know, people are kind of coming and going, journalists are coming and going, and we both saw Steve Jones. Remember Steve Jones. Well, he was like this. He was big T4 journalist. I think he hosted the X-Factor in the U S and stuff.
[00:53:59] Walk up the stairs [00:54:00] and police have a Gordon. Just look there. It was actually, who else was there? It was tubes from soccer, Amazon on their orders as well. And the three of us looked over at Steve Jones walking up the stairs who looked like he'd just been flicked out of GQ magazine, but everybody was going.
[00:54:14] Yeah, but everybody was the same, you know, ultimately Steve Jones, might've got a bit longer Bush. He still has to go in a room with whoever and. Have a conversation with them. So it's something that took a few years to get to that space of being authentic with somebody in that space, in that, in that small room, with that big ego in that small room sometimes, and dealing with the peripheral challenges to it, which are yours and all of that stuff.
[00:54:38] I never cared about the personalized or anything. I always tried to connect with whoever was in front of me. And sometimes you could, and sometimes you couldn't, you can tell which people are. You know, some people just have bad days. Obviously we can tell which people are essentially noise people in which people kind of aren't when it came to the delve and what that was, you know, before it became zip, [00:55:00] before it became a remote interview series, um, because of the pandemic, it was the same thing.
[00:55:05] It was having longer with these people. Like a lot of the guests I would have had, and to shoot a version of the show when I went down for a fam as well are not people that would have would approach now. And because now I own this and it's kind of people I want to talk to it's it's people in the cold air.
[00:55:21] Cool. I'd love to have a discussion with them. I'd love to chat to them. Let's get their take on whatever. Um, but like I'm still terrified interviewing people, like I still get really nervous interviewing people. Um, and I think that's important, you know, what's funny, like my girlfriend, Jo. Like she has shot so many interviews for me.
[00:55:40] I can know. So like Jones had conversations like with Bob sagas, like after the interview is finished, Joel will come around and I'll be chatting to people kind of afterwards, like, but, um, I'll just try and connect with people like, and it is a little bit trickier. I think our w when doing a remote and you like the forest, the forest interview, we put out [00:56:00] remotely for the Dao was bill Burr.
[00:56:02] And the first interview of that season, Uh, of the new season when I bought it, it was kind of supposed to be a bit of a statement. So it was, you know, it was my, I was going out on my own and I bought the shell, had made an investment into shell, had made an investments in equipment. I was freelance, you know, a pandemic, it started, it was like, I'm gonna be able to have, you know, I got to where I'm going to end up or where this is going to end up managed to get a sponsor, just to kind of cover costs and.
[00:56:29] relationship I had with his publicist over the years is the same publicist as Joe Rogan and a guy called Michael O'Brien really, really good guy based in New York. And I've spoken to bill over the phone a few times over the years, and I should prefix this by saying. I am the biggest billboard for, you can see the posts are for anybody.
[00:56:48] You can't see me. The posts are of a billboard poster behind me, a signed billboard poster behind me. And I named a dog after bill for like, I didn't do, I didn't tell him that he became, yeah, I named the dog after, after bill, like, [00:57:00] and I'm like biggest fan in the world. And, um, I've seen him live a bunch and stuff as well, but that, that was supposed to be that initial interview was supposed to be better or a Rourke.
[00:57:10] Um, he was a U S politician who ran for president. I know you are genuine, you think will be president some day. You'll certainly be part of that conversation again soon. And so that was one I was working on to try and get to be initial interview because I wanted it to be a statement that didn't happen for one reason or a motor.
[00:57:26] And, uh, I got the opportunity to speak to bill, you know, true grit, the T and hard work. And he was the perfect guest in a way, because. I knew I'd watched so many interviews with him and listen to his podcast. He felt like I knew it was a decent, you know, his, his public personality or his public persona and in a way.
[00:57:47] And I knew just to stay out of his way, you know, like it's like people like bill Burr are, um, they're like, they're just built to be entertaining. They're just built to be funny. And if you try and inject yourself, it [00:58:00] goes back to that facilitator thing. If you're trying to inject yourself into that conversation.
[00:58:04] Are you inject your personality into that conversation. It just ends up being crunched and you see people doing that with them and it never goes well, are people like bill Burr? He just took, you know, he just give them an opportunity to be funny. He's one of the best comedians of all time. And that's kind of what I did.
[00:58:16] I just say that was why I've watched, like, I think Conan O'Brien that somebody who's really, really underrated for interviewing people because, and especially now I think on his podcast, he is. Phenomenal Ash, Philadel silences with something that just makes you feel like the conversation's moving along, because there is nothing worse than watching an interview and feeling crunch.
[00:58:37] I've been like, Oh, where's this going to go? So I think first of all, that's the most important thing is recognizing that the audience is comfortable, you know, recognize that they need to be comfortable for the conversation to feel, um, like it's flowing. Like it's moving like a feels authentic, like a, feels like a real conversation.
[00:58:55] Um, and I've made mistakes even with, even with the season of the show or even with the last season of the [00:59:00] show, like, like chase Jake's hopper, um, for months to try and get Jake to do the show. And Jake is like, Jake is Jake tappers, the power for me in terms of broadcast journalism, like he's phenomenal.
[00:59:11] He's incredible at what he does. And finally got an opportunity to speak to him and then over prepared for the interview because I was nervous. So, um, I'd obviously built it up in my head and there was people from CNN on the call because. The presidential election itself was about to happen. So it was a big deal.
[00:59:28] Um, that's uh, I was getting to speak to them and they just, obviously the PRS and stuff like that. And CNN in the morning media needs to be careful about because of what's going out and stuff. So I hadn't had that before, and that kind of threw me off a little bit. So I had a brain fart in the conversation with Jake topper.
[00:59:44] And that adds happened to me. I think once before my career on live television, that's just stumbled through live television. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Like I need to find that footage to destroy it. And what happens? Indian fuel check topper, like just brain FARs. [01:00:00] I lost my train of thought, talking to Jake topper.
[01:00:03] And like, I like now I think back I'm like, Oh gosh, it's one of those things that, you know, when you're about to fall asleep, I'm not, you're like, uh,
[01:00:12] Noel: [01:00:12] and it's great to have that, to like, to acknowledge how that feels not great or whatever it is, but you're still able to go forward and do things anyway. And you see that two different things that you've done, whatever, like coming up against those different challenges. But in spite of that, are you, are you conscious of.
[01:00:30] Like looking back at the different things in our early twenties, middle twenties, mid twenties. And so on that you, that you've been through have kind of gone. I've been through something difficult before. It's not nice now that I'm in it, but I know that I get through it and kind of see past that. Is that something that you're conscious of or are you kind of, is it more, has it just become instinctual tear, do you think from things happening
[01:00:51] Mike: [01:00:51] to you?
[01:00:53] Um, it's a good question. I think so. I mean, I think I'm aware of it and. I mean, I think with that, [01:01:00] then Lloyd's frustration as well. When you don't feel like you're going to where you need to go to, and, or like, occasionally I've got people reaching out to me and just to ask them for like, tips about getting into media, but getting into interviews or whatever are looking for jobs.
[01:01:14] I'm like, that's hilarious. I'm going to social welfare. Are you kidding me? You want a job? I don't know how we're going to do that. Um, like, I mean like a lot of people in Ireland at the moment are around the world at the moment, Bush, you know, that's a, that's a kind of a little reminded us. To people just starting out with the people, trying to get into journalism or trying to get into interviewing people or wherever there's a certain levity to where experience brings you.
[01:01:36] And I think you kind of have to be aware of it and be aware of where you started and look all, you can get frustrated and vocalize those frustrations and like to my girlfriend, and it's always horror. He'll be like, hang on it. Like she's been in media for a long time as well. She's very experienced and it's always hurting, like, hang on a second, like kind of look at what you've.
[01:01:54] You've you've managed to achieve over the last few months, but to me, um, it's, it's, it's [01:02:00] not quite enough, you know, like maybe that's the ambition. Maybe that's the kind of inherent ambition in me dash, uh, kind of want to do more on a kind of want to challenge myself. It's like, look, and it's not like I'm going to challenge myself and do this.
[01:02:11] And I'm going to challenge myself and do that. It's like, I haven't done this before. I want to do this next. You know, like we, we tried to get a documentary made after I left packhouse. After I went freelance. And we were so close to getting a, made a documentary on the, uh, on the kind of political avoidance discourse called left Royce, which is kind of like a very basic, uh, kind of work and title that we had for port.
[01:02:37] Like we'd kind of reached out to people and got the likes of like, you know, battle and, and like bill Maher and like, uh, you know, on the extreme right. Reed Lake. Yeah, totally. You know, reaching out to like Ben Shapiro and just trying to. And that that's kind of where my head space was at the time I kind of go, okay, come be, find a common ground here, come do an interview with Alex and [01:03:00] Joel Cortez and do an interview with Ben Shapiro and just kind of find where the discourse is in the middle.
[01:03:05] And we were really liquid was development with a production company here. Um, and we'd gotten quite far along what I think I taught if we get to make this, um, this could be something. I think special if we did it in the right way and then like America, where first of all, obviously a COVID hit and we couldn't travel.
[01:03:23] But then like America just went like batshit and looking at us like what happened in early January in the U S like I had a feeling, something like that was going to happen. I didn't know when I was going to happen, but I had a feeling something like that was going to happen. So I find myself then watching.
[01:03:40] What's like, this is how it perverse. This is strangely precarious. I find myself watching. You know, what's going down in, um, in Washington on January 4th and then like, I'm jealous stash. I'm not there, you know, like I'm, I'm looking over at journalists being there because you know, like, not that I just want to, for the sake of a show or any sort of ego, want to be in the [01:04:00] middle of it and just be like taking selfies well as an interaction going on.
[01:04:04] But like, I felt like I could add something to the conversation. Almost by it being a conversation, obviously at that point, it's too late. It doesn't interaction going on, you know, it's, it's, it's something horrific. And, but I think it's, it's, it's something that's kind of going to reverberate in the history books for years.
[01:04:21] And maybe it was, I just felt like I'd understand that a bit more if I was over there and I felt like it just felt like it was a type of. Work or the type of content that you can do with a bit of dance on a bit of that hazard reverberation. And that was kind of where I was leading afterwards, before we bought the delve back and before about the interview series back, um, before I started doing interviews again, whereas I want to do things that are, I keep saying that word, but that are authentic.
[01:04:47] And that feel real because I think necessarily with, um, with media in particular, does an inauthenticity immediate. And, you know, you see it on social media all the time. And again, I [01:05:00] say this and I've absolutely been guilty of it. Um, but there's an authenticity in media and I just, just something, I just found an inherently frustrating.
[01:05:09] And I suppose my reaction to that was okay. Let's, you know, do something that feels real, something that feels authentic, something that could potentially make a difference with the at least has a density and does some semblance of Gordon terms of. Of of amplifying conversation as opposed to conflict,
[01:05:28] Chris: [01:05:28] you know what you do mention authenticity, and this is something I really wanted to talk to you about because, um, you know, when we do this research, I kind of go back over people's timelines, et cetera.
[01:05:37] It's interesting to see people's character development through what they want to expose that are peers and, and you're, you're, uh, you know, in a position where you're effectively onstage a lot. Um, and they're just going Erving. Goffman has this idea of, um, dramaturgy, which is like the whole world is a play and there are onstage and offstage presence.
[01:05:56] Presences. Is that a word that we all have? Right. [01:06:00] Uh, but when I was doing my research on you, I noticed that like recently I, since you've gone independent and like the way that you speak on social media and the type of posts, you're putting up, seem more authentic to me, you know? And I, I wanted to ask you the question of, um, Your dog Harley.
[01:06:18] Okay. So you have this onstage presence of Mike shares in the concert professional, and then there's the off stage. Like who's sitting on the coach with Harley, you know, who's the mic that hardly knows
[01:06:31] Mike: [01:06:31] the one that picks up her shit at the backyard while she's looking at me and been like, yeah, pick that shit up. I'm I'm, I'm running this house. Um, I mean, that is me, I think, um, I'm a lot more conscious now about what is and social media. And I was even a year or two ago, I think. Um, and I don't think you can make any sweeping generalizations about one person and what they say on social media.
[01:06:53] And, you know, I think the way the news cycle and stuff works now is just its own forgiving, you know, and [01:07:00] you might be able to lead something, but you can't really delete something. And I'm just a lot more conscious about what I put up, because I just feel like if I'm not adding to the discourse or not adding to.
[01:07:10] I dunno, you know, there's an element of self promotion there as well, obviously cost there kind of has to be, and that makes me feel a little bit icky. And that makes me feel a little bit like, that's not like that's not something I'm entirely comfortable with. It's probably not something I'd ever be entirely comfortable with.
[01:07:24] Um, but yeah, it's that balance between, Oh, I need to kind of promote myself in what I'm doing here and. I'll never have the lack of shame to be able to do it enough to become popular on social media. But I still need to kind of every once in a while to kind of do something and say something that, um, you know, resonates with me and that I feel like I need to kind of share.
[01:07:47] So, um, like with something like Twitter, Twitter was great at first, you know, um, I talked to Bo Burnham about this is one of the smartest people I've ever spoken to in my life and how he kind of talked about. [01:08:00] Just interactions in social media and you know how these companies need this and they need Donald Trump and they need the outrage and it's just a cycle.
[01:08:10] You know, they kind of need people aggravate it on, you know, and then algorithmic, you know, these kinds of systems have their own, um, detrimental effects of your own and formed. You're just kind of delivering this echo chamber of your own. You know, w have your own views just been just an overbearing black tea.
[01:08:27] It, so, um, it's yeah, I just, I don't, I don't feel like I can, not that I can't be myself on social media. I mean, I certainly have in, or certainly tried to be, I certainly haven't tried to be anybody else, um, bought like, uh, you know, I'm probably overly conscious about what important put it that way. And I'll probably just, I mean, I wish I get less of a shirt.
[01:08:48] You know, like I wish I was just like, yeah, whatever, I'm a reasonable person. I'm just gonna do this. I'm just gonna say I didn't care about us. You know, to
[01:08:54] Chris: [01:08:54] be honest though, you have to be, you have to be careful. You know, I think we live in a world of kind of learned [01:09:00] helplessness and learned vitriol and, you know, there's that confirmation bias and negativity bias that the media set agenda they play on.
[01:09:08] And unfortunately, if you want to play that game, you've. Got to play that game, you know, and it's a tough game to play. And I think there's a bit of a reticence that those, all your shots that were just a little bit queasy about self-promotion and not going to stuff. Um, I think the Americans do it very, very well, but they're extremely positive nation, you know, um, like self help was born in America on the West coast.
[01:09:31] Uh, when you are in America, I love being. In California, because people are just so damn positive, like nobody ever has a fucking bad day. When you, when you asked them on the street, are we doing
[01:09:45] Mike: [01:09:45] and it's very sunny. It's very, very sunny. Yeah. Um,
[01:09:49] Chris: [01:09:49] I, I really want to ask you, Oh, go ahead. Go ahead.
[01:09:55] Dan: [01:09:55] No. I was just saying, I think like you have to, like, all of us [01:10:00] here are trying to build some sort of a career or, or whatever you want to call it on social media. Right. And I do think that you have to be extremely, extremely careful, but I also think that you also have to be genuine to yourself and be true to yourself, but I've found myself now, uh, between, you know, obviously doing the podcast and the stream.
[01:10:20] I find myself picking my words a little bit more and I find myself like constantly curating myself because I kind of have the way I would talk to you guys. And then I'd have the way that I would talk if I'm talking, doing gaming stuff. Right. That's really nerdy. But I find that I'm constantly like, am I being legit?
[01:10:37] Or am I saying what I think I should say, do you ever, do you ever feel like that, Mike? Do you ever feel that like, you know, am I saying this because I, people expect me to, or I actually want to say this.
[01:10:47] Mike: [01:10:47] Absolutely. I think, especially on Twitter, which is why I stopped really kind of tween so much, to be honest, um, because it comes back to do I [01:11:00] really want to work at a Cisco and this is kind of gonna be retweets.
[01:11:03] Is this going to, and that's something that I find that difficult, I would say is seeing people and knowing how media works and knowing how publications work and knowing how, you know, certain journalists think. And seeing them do something and know exactly what they're doing and to be like, Oh, that just bugs me because it's, it's not coming from a good place.
[01:11:27] It's not coming from the right place. It's coming from. It's coming from a place of self promotion. And it makes me a little bit sick to be honest with you. So, and you see that so much. And. And there's nothing you can do about it. So you're just going to have to let it go. Obviously, you know, sort of peoples it's sort of people's voices.
[01:11:45] That's what they're doing, but when it's detrimental to order people and it's detrimental or itself, for sure, it's this kind of fo um, I dunno, activism or fall and empathy or sympathy, or it's just somebody who [01:12:00] feels like the punching up for the sake of functional, because when you point your up, there's no, you know, there's no boundaries.
[01:12:06] Nobody can say, ah, you know, So if somebody is rich and famous or whatever, you know, as an I'm a, you can say what you like, or if somebody is not the right, um, hasn't got the right political ideology or whatever, or, um, has said something in the past, like the, like, I think a perfect example of that, uh, just to go off on a slight tangent, this is Tom Brady.
[01:12:27] He's a perfect example of that because there's no more. As somebody who could never be perceived to be punching up more than when you insult Tom Brady. Right? Cause look at him like, look at Tom, he's the ultimate winner, like seven super bowls, you know, supermodel wife, everything else. And the amount of people I've seen pointing up with Tom Brady in the past couple of weeks, uh, is mindblowing.
[01:12:53] And what they hung it on with Tom Brady was that he knew Donald Trump. He knew it all at once years [01:13:00] ago and rubber Kraft, who was the owner of the Patriots, gave him a mega high, sir, make America great. Again, the high center was in his locker or something like that. That's where he left it. And that has so many people's base for hating Tom Ray.
[01:13:12] And then, like you said, right wing Trump, like. On a, on a, you know, on a, on a fundamental level, like, do you mean the people that were at Donald Trump's wedding, like the Clinton threat, Donald Trump sweating, you know, like half of medium was that, you know, was, was friendly with Donald Trump is friends with Donald Trump and just to zone in on somebody like Tom Brady, just purely as an example, because he's the ultimate punching up because.
[01:13:37] Noel: [01:13:37] Sorry, it's a, it's such a pity that water can do. Is it, was there like, for example, Danisco, I'm kind of, double-check my words. So like it can block up so many people having discussions about things, you know, especially like in the sixties, seventies, eighties, Ireland, you know, of course it's yes. Be respectful.
[01:13:55] And, uh, on the, on the intent, I think the intent behind things is really important. You see that with [01:14:00] comedians and different software. It can block people up from saying stuff. And they're not just especially the people that aren't just saying it just to say something or just to be offensive, but because it's important to have disagreements, it's really important.
[01:14:14] That's how we get on it. And it's done in a respectful, fairly respectful way and having difference of opinions and, uh, you know, and, and things like that. Because if we don't have that, then people are on edge. It's like, Oh, can I say, I won't say anything? And that thing that they could have said. That could have been an amazing thing.
[01:14:30] And it just, it's unfortunate because it's short so many people down. Yes. There'll be people that it's no harm that they're not, that they're shutdown, but that we kind of don't hear those opinions, but it can block all the, a lot of other ones as well and making people so self-conscious, and it can go in with social or other parts of social media, not all the time.
[01:14:49] Um, it can go into that spiral off into. I have to be the right way, perform the right way, you know, act, throw it away, look the right way and it can spiral off it's it's that [01:15:00] whole kind of thing of, like you said, there's like DACA, I think Bree, it was in the same County or did that the same state has Donald Trump let's go after him and you're just constantly on edge it's
[01:15:11] Mike: [01:15:11] yeah.
[01:15:12] It's, it's this weird perception that it's okay for certain people. No it's okay because it's ice rich swipes the supermodel seven super bowls. He's ridiculous. He good-looking, it's like whatever, and I'm not entered the NFL. You know, we just found a Tom Brady example just absolutely fast. Well,
[01:15:28] because
[01:15:29] Noel: [01:15:29] he strips the human, the human away.
[01:15:30] That's what we're talking to, Brittany Spears thing and documentary there. And I haven't seen it yet, but I've just seen different things and, and it's like, you look at it, you've paid for Britney Spears, for example, like you've got. You've got to at the time, I think it was one of the photos, like a young mother, very young mother who was pregnant with her child on her lap, who tries to escape pathologist all just this attack.
[01:15:52] And it just takes the human away. I think that was something nice from, from watching, watching you and your research and looking at your [01:16:00] life and follow on that. And the, and the difference that, you know, the, the one 26 miles from Limerick to Dublin, the NMA, I think really in particular, W cause MOA MMA, especially at the time.
[01:16:10] Cause it's funny, you kind of seeing where it's at now and that's, it's just, as you were talking there earlier, you were talking because you remember happening at the time, which was seven, eight years ago, which in Emmet, the life of MMA is a huge amount of time. Over the last eight years. It's a massive, it's just exploded.
[01:16:25] Um, but it was really kind of this dirty thing after the, or the troublesome child of, of sports in Ireland in particular and lots of other places as well. But it was because you were in it, you could run in the friendship that you, that you created with, with, with own and underperformed formed with own.
[01:16:43] Cause it was like, I, I really see this, this is hurting my body and I am part of that and they see it and there's, uh, there's, there's beautiful people here. There's amazing people here and all the things that you've said. It's not something that I see that I've seen in yet, you know, over, over the co evolving over the years of [01:17:00] seeing the same things in the other.
[01:17:02] Person's point of view is that there's a, there's a person here, you know, you talk to one of your Instagram IETV posts was, you know, of course we're, we're trying to do our best with the whole COVID thing with what's going on as well. But there's a person don't, don't just try not to just keep attacking that person.
[01:17:17] And it just kept coming down to, as Chris was talking about that, that's where we were both kind of where we looking at and research and about you. It was just that our 10 authenticity that's there. Um, Really prevalent, lots of different experiences and, and commentary on that.
[01:17:33] Mike: [01:17:33] Yeah. Just if, if I don't know if I could stomach being an airway and I have occasionally like, you know, posted stuff out there are tweeted something or posted something on Instagram that are probably deleted or wherever.
[01:17:48] Like, I dunno if it's a shirtless picture or something like that, or I'd like my girlfriend to be like, look. You know, you train higher fitness is a big part of your life. You know, I get them, like, [01:18:00] that's not what she'll say, she'll kill me for saying that. She'd be like, look, it's authentic because you train a lot and you're doing, you know, whatever.
[01:18:06] And I was like, it's just, why would I, what am I dealing with this? And it's ridiculous to think that every single thing that I post needs to mean something it needs to be. So, you know, and again, you know, I wish I didn't, I wish I would get less of a shit to be honest with your boss. Moments like that.
[01:18:20] Yeah, for sure. Like moments like, um, I think initially what was happening around, around COVID and just the discourse, even back then and just how toxic it was getting and how the blame game was already started in a way and how you couldn't ask any questions at all. Even now, you know, like even, even what, uh, in like South Philly McMahon tweeted something to them.
[01:18:44] Big fan of Philly. Like Philly's like, I've interviewed him a few times. I've done events and stuff like that with Philly. And like, Philly is just a better human than 99% of us will ever be like, you just, well, what I think he does, he's a cool guy. And like, he's like, no, look, if you're playing [01:19:00] against them in the all Ireland, like you wouldn't say, cause you know, it's a different ladder is a different ladder.
[01:19:06] I'll tell you that, you know, but I'm just to think of terms of what he's done for his community and what he tries to do for people. And he's just a good guy and he was tweeting the other day about just kind of saying, look, we need to have a conversation around, uh, you know, these kinds of lockdowns and these, you know, what's going on within, uh, COVID on, within, uh, people's houses and the, in a more private sense and a more personal sense when it comes to mental health, when it comes to everything else, because, and we're not going to see the.
[01:19:35] Probably negativity of these type of scenarios in terms of personal development and stuff, and fully articulated a way better than I am. But for years, because he has people coming to him, going my, you know, my son, my daughter, whoever is finding the super toll from my girlfriend's dad is a vice principal of a school.
[01:19:52] And, you know, they're doing everything remotely. So I've kind of got an insight when I speak to, when I speak to him about how the, how kids are finding the niche [01:20:00] and. How teachers and stuff are finding it. And I think what happens in situations like this, um, which are kind of highly fraught situations, is that the smallest things and some big things as well, but the smallest things can become amplified.
[01:20:14] And people are on edge and arguments and, um, beer online beers on the streets, wherever it just gets bigger. And it just feels bigger because if you're not in a good space, in a good frame of mind, and it's very difficult to be like, no, I think if you're, you know, if you're looking off to, to have people in your life to have people in your space while, um, you know, we're kind of confined to, you know, a certain space and not seeing people that we would like to see.
[01:20:41] Um, it can be very easy to go off and just, and just kind of snap. And I've seen people go down on social media a lot. I've seen people do that in Paris, and I certainly seen the media there was, and I've certainly seen the media lead into it a lot because again, you know, does it, there's an element of, look, this isn't a public [01:21:00] interest.
[01:21:00] We have to cover this sport. We can't ask certain questions because. That will look like, you know, we're, we're leading down the, or we're going to with the conspiracies or we're going to go into, you know, whatever and Porsche Tafili articulated that very, very well on Twitter and just open the conversation.
[01:21:16] We're just going to go on. Okay. Look, I'm not saying anything ridiculous or insane, or Tim flat hot ass, but like, can we have a conversation about what this is going to mean in a couple of years, time as vaccines and stuff started to roll in? Like, so I, by no means. I'm smart enough to understand even elements that are assigned to, which is why I would never comment on us force looking at the way people are speaking to each other.
[01:21:41] And, um, the kind of just at this course in general, like it's, it's not healthy. And, um, you should be able to come back to that. Just what you were saying, you should be able to have these conversations because somebody is going to have an insight stack codes, you know, provide a lot of clarity to a lot of people and help a [01:22:00] lot of people.
[01:22:00] Noel: [01:22:00] Context that to get the context of people's situations is, is massively important. Like I'm sure like fairly of all the people from, you know, coming from the areas he's come from and, and people in though in areas like Ballymore, or, or different kind of perceived areas that would be, you know, the particularly challenging areas.
[01:22:19] Um, it's the seed, the context of where that's, where that person's coming from, what's going on for that person behind that. And that is. I'm very lucky where, where we are in Australia. We've been very lucky with being able to we've had, we had a slight lockdown at the start, you know, homeschooled and with the kids here and now, and it is, it's very difficult being so far away seeing, um, family members, friends, obviously, I, I work with people in Ireland, um, and, and it's, it is difficult seeing that and what they're going through and doing what I do, knowing the consequences.
[01:22:53] Of what's going to come from this. I suppose I, I, I, I deal with consequences as, um, as, as a, as a [01:23:00] therapist, I'm working with people say, now, something that happened to them five, 10, 15, 20 years ago, this will be one of those things that will have an effect on people. And that it's one of the reasons why we started to do the podcast and it's to try and help people as best we can show that.
[01:23:16] And I think definitely just that bit of kindness. It's a very, very simple thing to do. It can be at least. Um, but to just offer that kindness to people just to have an ear, to, to have that little chat, but I CA I think a key part of it is to see the context of them look for the other person's point of view, see where they're coming from.
[01:23:35] I think that was just something that really came through with, I saw from, from your, when you went in, as I said, when you, when you were in with the, with the MMA group and, and that, and, and, um, yeah, just really kind of. It makes, it allows you to be a bit more human and see far before for another human being.
[01:23:54] Mike: [01:23:54] Like, there's nothing wrong with being conscious of contacts and I mightn't get your retweets and, and we piss people off like, Oh, you [01:24:00] tweeted something. Do you know, when characteristically to be honest, so Twitter, something to do today about, um, cause obviously the Brittany Spears documentary is very much in the Zoe case at the moment and, you know, it's it, you know, like I think for very good reason as well.
[01:24:14] Um, and kind of looking back at jokes and stuff like that that were made about Brittany Spears and about what she had to deal with were true, like which was just insanity. Even Dan, if having any sense of empathy and realizing and seeing what that girl was going through, Dan. And it's it's it's mind blowing, like.
[01:24:33] And even going back then to the nineties about what, like what Monica Lewinsky had to shit like Monica Lewinsky, wasn't a celebrity. She was somebody who worked in the white house and the shit she had to put up with. But then I basically didn't, I was like, David Letterman is trending. And I was like, wait, what is David Letterman trending?
[01:24:49] And like, Letterman is somebody. I would, um, do anything to interview like Letterman is, he's just a legend. So I've seen him, I've seen him perform and we've seen him. Give two tapings of a show [01:25:00] of the late show back in the day before Cole Colbert took over. Now, he was a miserable swine at the time. Like he was Dolan, he'd been doing it for too long and, uh, he kind of had demons and stuff like that, that he sent addressed.
[01:25:11] And I think since apologized for, and just, he seems to have grown massively as a human for somebody in his, I think, early seventies now or whatever it is. And I love the next gas. I think it's a beautiful way to interview people and. If he's, he's evolved into this really tall, awful interviewer that listens, and then the Brittany spirits, documentaries and desire go to some as popular for very good reason.
[01:25:33] Um, and somebody tweets an interview that David Letterman did with Lindsay Lohan in 2013, where David Landsman has kind of been very David Letterman, ask Lindsay Lohan, I've been attacked terror and just kind of been mean and saying you should be in rehab and stuff like that. So Letterman's trending that then another SIS canceled David Letterman movement, and I'm like, I S I think I tweeted something like, Oh, it's great to see Twitter's canceling people again.
[01:25:55] It makes me feel almost, it's almost comforting. Like, it feels like things are going back to normal [01:26:00] and yeah. And it's somebody engaged with me and be like, kind of annoyed, you know, and be like, um, yeah, like what what's wrong. Like he should be called out for this. You should be called there for doing this and actually had a, quite a good dialogue with them.
[01:26:13] That's somebody else that was immediate. I had to go because it's so easy to misinterpret tone and stuff over, over and over text or over tweezed. And, um, he had his contacts and he was like, look, I can see it hypocrisy. I was pointing out hypocrisy of people doing, not the actual interview, um, of the journalists that went and found that interview and knew it was in the zeitgeists.
[01:26:31] I knew it would be a new, get them fixed and they will get them retweets and you'll get them a following or wherever. And I found that quite hypocritical. Um, and I found that very frustrating. So. Um, but, um, I was still able to have a dialogue with somebody after, after a couple of fraught exchanges,
[01:26:48] Chris: [01:26:48] the close off the show, you know, we've been extolling the virtues of, um, therapy for the masses, you know, for the past three episodes.
[01:26:56] And it's the kind of main reason that we set up the show. Obviously, my [01:27:00] relationship with Knoll is, uh, I'm his client and he is my, my actual therapist for the last five years or so. Um, we do a pre-interview questionnaire. And you mentioned that you have been in therapy for awhile. Do you want to maybe let people know if it's been something that has benefited you and in what way?
[01:27:16] Mike: [01:27:16] Absolutely. Um, it was actually, it was a true encouragement of, um, we now girlfriend, she was my girlfriend at the time. We were friends at the time, but I bet I've been seen Vincent now for God. Patrina half, nearly four years now. And sometimes. I have, like I went to, I started therapy for, I suppose, a very specific reason.
[01:27:40] You kind of, you kind of talking before about, you know, locked down and in a few years time, people having to deal with the issues that they found now that won't manifest themselves for a few years. And that's it. That's exactly why. Um, I ended up in therapy I suppose, because it was an era, not a relationship I had, but somebody I knew a [01:28:00] long time ago, who was.
[01:28:02] Quite a damaged person, I think, and, you know, you know, forever, I'm sure they have their own reasons and our own history and stuff. And it was just something that affected me without even realize that it did affect me or whatever. Um, and it wasn't a relationship. It wasn't really a friendship. It was just this weird kind of toxic situation.
[01:28:25] Um, and. Um, like just, I don't know if you'd call it gaslighting or wherever you'd call up what you're saying. I said things I didn't say and, and just kind of mess and Whitman. It was a person I knew, I'd say for about maybe 10, 11 months or something like that. And there was a reverberation of that pseudo toxic relationship for a few years afterwards.
[01:28:47] And just, I think at a certain point, I think I had maybe a bit of a mini breakdown and. I was in a relationship at the time I, with my previous girlfriends who don't have to deal with Ash [01:29:00] and me probably not dealing with it in the healthiest way that I could. And her just kind of in like, you know, wanting to help and just kind of at a certain point as well.
[01:29:11] I'm sure she would never say to Sarah, I'm probably just getting sick of it and like, you know, it, wasn't something that manifested itself in a very overt way. So it wasn't like, this is the thing that's bothering me. I'm wherever Bush. It was always something, um, that was kind of in the back. And we had, and I dunno if it was post-traumatic stress syndrome, wherever it was Bush.
[01:29:32] I think I did have a bit of a breakdown at a certain point. I never dealt with it and just kind of probably got onto the next thing and, um, you know, concentrate on my career or wherever it was. And then about Trina half, four years ago. For whatever reason, the conduct came to a head and I'm a deeply practical person.
[01:29:54] And I was like, there's nothing I can do about this person and who they are and our own journey or whatever they're doing. There's nothing I can do [01:30:00] about that. Um, so like I said, sometime I still struggle with now. So like, you know, as in like, I would want to go and fix the situation and be like, okay, that's not a problem anymore.
[01:30:11] That's not an issue anymore. Um, and my girlfriend Jo, at the time, I said, look, I think it's time to kind of start going to see something out, to speak to somebody professionally, because I'd always be conscious of, um, you know, taking up people's time or like I've lost friends, I think from leaning on them too heavily around that as well.
[01:30:30] There's certain people I feel like I could talk to, um, and, or glean under way too heavily. And then they become too emotionally invested in us and it's not fair on them. And like, that's certainly something that has happened as well. And something retrospectively got to wish hadn't happened. But then speaking to Vincent and certainty and Vince and Trina half, whatever it was four years ago, you kind of stop feeling guilty about.
[01:30:56] You know, unloading stuff on somebody like a joke of incident, we're going to pay any, you have to [01:31:00] listen to me more and he's like, you're not mounting this isn't, this is a process where we're working the gutter. Um, but it's absolutely helped certainly in terms of like my anxiety and, um, just stress levels and look, I'm, I'm certainly somebody who thinks way too much, um, especially when I'm on my own.
[01:31:17] Um, or, um, and like when I brought up, when my previous relationship had ended like a few years ago, Like, you know, being in a house on your own. Um, just like she, she talked the dogs, she got the dogs and stuff like that as well. And I wasn't in a good space. I didn't realize it wasn't even a good space.
[01:31:34] That was around the time I started teen Vincent and everything kind of seemed to come to a bit of a head then as well, because you spend that much time alone. And I remember for me, it was like we had an attic upstairs and it was where we will do the washing. So if I have to wash them, like, um, I'm trying to constantly, so it's constantly shit loads of washing.
[01:31:53] So it was constantly opened up in the attic, kind of hanging on clothes to dry. And, um, it was [01:32:00] just whatever reason I would just get really depressed, you know, when I went up there and I can't blame that person, like, I don't want to give them any attention really, to be honest with you. I am, I don't like I haven't seen or spoken to them or anything like that and well, over a decade, but, um, I can't blame them specifically, but it would just spiral a little bit.
[01:32:18] And at the time, my, my stepfather, my, my mom's husband was very, very sick and he ultimately passed away around that. I didn't feel like I could, I don't like it and really feel like I could save anybody or like, you know, articulated in a way that would make sense. And I felt like I started to piss people off who had been really close to me and who was, you know, I'd leaned on way too heavy and had been too coined for too long.
[01:32:43] And, um, Joe, um, was just like, look, I think it's time to start chatting to somebody. So, um, started seeing Vincent then initially it was probably quite fraught because it would be quite panicked and it would be quite stressed. And, and it's evolved to this point now [01:33:00] where sometimes it's just like, you know, the problem at a day, the problem with a week and just vocalize and, um, you know, or venting or getting an author perspective from somebody who.
[01:33:14] No, it doesn't know me. And, um, you know, for me, like a lot of it, like, we'll be like, insecurities are about like a progression of my career or something like that. But way back then, like it was this very specific issue that I see now looking back retrospectively dash played a massive role and, uh, and my mindset and anxieties and, um, just kind of how I handled myself, how I dealt with people.
[01:33:41] Um, And yeah, it was, you know, it's, it's very painful to look back and even remember elements, others, and even remember, and the difficulties of certain conversations and stuff like that. So Vincent's been invaluable in that sense and just kind of offer me [01:34:00] clarity on, offer me an opportunity to be like, well, hang on a second or just kind of break it back and pull it back and go and make me see things in a different way to friends of Troy for years.
[01:34:11] Um, you know, like when you feel like you've done something wrong or you feel like you're about Paris or wherever, you know, you, you explained it to an outsider and to tell you enough to like, know that's another thing happened here. I'd like, you were just saying that cause your boyfriend, you know, so to have it have an expert, Italia is, yeah.
[01:34:26] Are you
[01:34:26] Noel: [01:34:26] finding yourself a piece a lot more with, with things and particularly your, your role in things?
[01:34:34] Dan: [01:34:34] Um,
[01:34:37] Mike: [01:34:37] maybe, I don't know. We don't know, it's certainly helped like therapy, uh, certainly helps. Um, certainly, certainly in that sense. Yeah. Um,
[01:34:45] Noel: [01:34:45] not, not necessarily that I'm glad that happened or, you know, I'm delighted with that, but it's that these things have happened and I'm not to stop relate that, that particular relationship with a particular reason, you know, but the different kinds of events and different things that have happened, you know, even so [01:35:00] far as to that ability to be at peace, with things to be able to then, so, perfect example, such as the Delta.
[01:35:07] So I'm actually going to back myself with this. I ain't gonna go with this, you know, the bankability in yourself, the peace with it, within yourself, all coming together to do something like that.
[01:35:18] Mike: [01:35:18] Yeah. I mean, you have to have a certain, certain, um, that'd be comfortable with yourself to a certain degree, Bush.
[01:35:24] I mean, I think what drives you and I've spoken to Vincent about this so much is that, you know, I'm never happy. Like any interview I've ever done, I'm never happy, like Joel Italia. And she's like giving me the cop on, you know, um, and people like infused people with low for work. I've done that people were really enjoy or something I've written or something like that.
[01:35:44] I'll always be hyper critical of myself. And, you know, an element of that is healthy and element that is unhealthy. And that's another perspective that you can get from speaking to somebody professionally. Um, it's obviously a very personal and very individual thing. Um, but somebody, uh, in media [01:36:00] that's, uh, it's manifest itself quite publicly, a lot of the time too, but you are like, I mean, I've, I've, I've gotten song.
[01:36:09] Like it's funny. Cause I wouldn't think I was particularly sensitive in a lot of ways at all. And maybe that's from growing up in Bob's you do honor butters and stuff for that. Yeah. There's no time for dash and put, like I've gotten 10 thousands of abusive comments on YouTube and stuff. Like that's what happens.
[01:36:25] We need to Jordan Peterson and get him to talk about Donald Trump for that. It does like all you think are hilarious. Like, I mean, for me, like, I mean, they're like. I think I was having a particularly bad hair day that day, but I do have a big head anyway, but like the comments are like, he looks like a midget with, he looks like a major with gigantism like this terrace.
[01:36:44] Noel: [01:36:44] Sometimes if they go so far away, it's kind of comes back around that it's actually now does. Now. It's just funny. It was just on the interview, you know, to strive. I'll never be happier to, is there, is there an interview, do you think, or is there a time when I will be [01:37:00] happy or is that something that you're.
[01:37:03] Prepare it to say, I don't think I'll ever be happy or you still just kind of figure trying to figure that one out.
[01:37:08] Mike: [01:37:08] So I'm trying to figure it out. What else? I think, I mean, I think on a personal sense now I'm in my late thirties now. Um, I have a house, I have a dog, I have a girlfriend. I'm very lucky.
[01:37:18] Like we have an amazing relationship. Um, I'm like super happy. Um, professionally, I'm not as happy as they could be, I suppose, but I don't think many people aren't given what's going on in the world. Um, boss that said like, Uh, who knows what, you know, the next six months or 12 months are going to bring when I first went freelance and it was certainly a big step to tell you can, I had to kind of gamble on myself a little bit.
[01:37:42] I was lucky that I had savings. I was lucky that I got sponsorship. I'm lucky that I can, I have relationships and media that I can, um, you know, go with the people and pitch things and do things. So, I mean, I think if there's that, if there's any kind of lesson in it whatsoever, it start like, You know, somebody who [01:38:00] you think is levitating or somebody who you think levitates above you, or has some Sarat professional levity, you know, everybody has their things and everybody's, you know, struggling on a daily basis just to, just to make ends meet a lot of the time.
[01:38:13] And I'm certainly part of that and no amount of interviewing whoever, you know, from the white house or whoever from whatever movies is going to change that. Hm.
[01:38:24] Chris: [01:38:24] Like, I want to say two things to you first and foremost. Thanks for doing what you just did. Um, it's difficult, no mine to mine. I know that feeling of, um, you don't want to burden the people around you by having them.
[01:38:37] I know the feeling that objectivity that therapists can provide you. Um, and I know that people will resonate with your story. So, you know, again, I want to thank you for that. Secondly, um, I want to say that, you know, we back, you, you know, I think the data was going to do really well. Um, I think that you are a consummate professional.
[01:38:55] I think you're. Charismatic, you go to what you do. And I really look forward to seeing where the next [01:39:00] few years takes you, you know, pandemic aside, y'all all, can't wait to left, fucks off, but I think we'll conclude the normal or the main section of the show now. And I'd like to do, to sit in the piece where we do, um, a quick fire round.
[01:39:12] So I'm going to ask you a couple of questions and well, tend to be exact, and you've got five seconds. You got, you got five seconds to answer each one. Okay. So the first thing that pops into your head. They're not difficult questions. Um, some of them are bespoke to you that we've gotten from, uh, your timeline and things like that.
[01:39:31] Some are just general questions that we want to, um, hit every guest with. Okay. So I want to start you off with question one. Yes or no. This is your last game.
[01:39:39] Mike: [01:39:39] So beating around the Bush
[01:39:44] 10 questions. Come on five seconds on the clock. We already know y'all need a lot of quick questions. Come on, pick up the base.
[01:39:55] Chris: [01:39:55] Who is your dream guest for the death?
[01:39:59] Mike: [01:39:59] John [01:40:00] Stewart.
[01:40:01] Chris: [01:40:01] Nice favorite movie of all time.
[01:40:05] Dan: [01:40:05] Swingers,
[01:40:07] Chris: [01:40:07] favorite interview you have ever done.
[01:40:16] Mike: [01:40:16] So I get asked that a lot and I can never really give her the forest inferior I ever did on camera was Adam Sandler. And he was the nicest human being in the world. So he's up there. And, but in terms of how the interview went on, what was underlying, um, billboard. Okay.
[01:40:33] Chris: [01:40:33] Uh, name something weird or absurd that you love.
[01:40:37] Mike: [01:40:37] Coke zero and protein bars. I'm a freak. I have to have a certain amount of Coke, zero downstairs on protein bars. And my girlfriend is so kind and she's so like, do you want to go get some, we'll get you some protein bars and Coke. Zero. You've only got seven left in the press.
[01:40:56] Chris: [01:40:56] we
[01:40:56] Dan: [01:40:56] witnessed Mike with his barbell peanut butter bar obsession on [01:41:00] coaxer. Or we used to work in the same office together. I've seen him with Coke, zero and protein
[01:41:03] Mike: [01:41:03] bars eat. Yeah. I balanced it out a little bit war somewhat, but not enough. I don't think. But yeah, it's like, I'm not a huge drinker, you know, I don't smoke or anything like that.
[01:41:13] So it's my one, vice is Coke, zero, which is a bit sad to be honest. All right.
[01:41:19] Chris: [01:41:19] Name something that you couldn't live without.
[01:41:21] Mike: [01:41:21] And something or someone to kind of be anything, anything you want, anything he wants? Uh, those close to me.
[01:41:33] Chris: [01:41:33] If you were the last person on earth, what would you still do?
[01:41:38] Mike: [01:41:38] What would I still do?
[01:41:40] Yeah, eat, drink Coke. Zero. He protein bars.
[01:41:44] Chris: [01:41:44] Okay. If you could broadcast a message to everyone on earth, what would it be?
[01:41:49] Mike: [01:41:49] Listen more nice.
[01:41:52] Chris: [01:41:52] What advice should young people ignore
[01:41:57] Mike: [01:41:57] anything? That's not direct to them. [01:42:00] That's not individual to them. Does great broad advice. They can get about working harder and do next and do more.
[01:42:07] And somebody that knows you as somebody that's close to you understands your contacts, your background, whatever it may be, that your trust when they give you advice. Listen. That's
[01:42:17] Chris: [01:42:17] a lovely answer. If you feel overwhelmed, what do you do? What do you instinctively do?
[01:42:23] Mike: [01:42:23] Work out way too hard, but come the hydrate and then cramp up.
[01:42:30] Chris: [01:42:30] Okay. Last one, finish this sentence at the end of the day, it all comes down to
[01:42:37] Mike: [01:42:37] those around you. Fantastic.
[01:42:40] Chris: [01:42:40] Like this has been brilliant. Um, I really appreciate you giving us the time. Yeah, where can we find
[01:42:45] Dan: [01:42:45] you? And where can the people
[01:42:46] Mike: [01:42:46] who's listening find you. You can follow me on social media. We're on Mike Sharratt and blessed, to be honest with you all you wouldn't, this is not, you know, like, unless you want to see my dog Harley.
[01:42:56] Who's very cute. Um, yeah, follow me there, but I might, I might [01:43:00] share it in everywhere, um, on social media and follow the delve. And if you want to see any of the interviews and stuff that I've done the whole back catalog of, um, fascinate and important people like Amanda Knox and Anthony Scaramucci and Bob Seiger, she's one of the funniest people I've ever I've ever spoken to in my life.
[01:43:17] They're older.
[01:43:18] Dan: [01:43:18] Awesome. Thanks so much, man.
[01:43:20] Chris: [01:43:20] Appreciate it. This has been episode or I believe or three. I can't remember. It doesn't really matter, but we're going to close off the episode there. Thank you very much for listening guys. This is one of the MC podcast over and out.
